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To: D-fendr; kosta50; MarkBsnr
,i>Of course not, everyone knows it's at the center of the earth surrounded by a big oxygen pocket next to a lode of brimstone.

Actually NewAdvent proposed that it was at the center of the earth. I'm not sure. The scriptures are silent as to where hell is just as it is silent as to where our Lord is physically seated (you do believe in a physical resurrection I hope). Of course Mary was suppose to have been physically resurrection-that I'm not sure. Elijah and Enoch also were taken immediately to heaven. Where are they?

Or perhaps we're one church and it's frustrating when attempts at "let's you and him fight" don't work.

Nope! Pretending to be "one church" is a farce in my mind. The doctrine and organizational structure between Orthodox and Catholic are completely different. What I find is that the Orthodox tend to be very firm and committed in their beliefs. Catholics, otoh, have been slowing discarding and dissolving their beliefs for the last 1500 years. Fathers that have written things 1700 years ago mean nothing anymore because we have "later" information. HA! Augustine said that Christianity was like someone throwing a pebble into water, the farther away the ripple, the more distortion.

There's only two beliefs. You can stay where you're at but if you move you can only go one of two ways.

8,037 posted on 10/03/2007 9:13:28 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

It may be a farce in your mind, but your mind is not the Church. St. Augustine said a lot of things, as did many of the Church Fathers that were corrected or treated as heresy by the Church.

The Church is greater than the sum of its earthly parts due to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That is why errant men can be a part of the inerrant Church.

New Advent has this to say on the physical location of hell: The Church has decided nothing on this subject; hence we may say hell is a definite place; but where it is, we do not know. St. Chrysostom reminds us: “We must not ask where hell is, but how we are to escape it” (In Rom., hom. xxxi, n. 5, in P.G., LX, 674). St. Augustine says: “It is my opinion that the nature of hell-fire and the location of hell are known to no man unless the Holy Ghost made it known to him by a special revelation”, (De Civ. Dei, XX, xvi, in P.L., XLI, 682).

Hell is a state of the greatest and most complete misfortune, as is evident from all that has been said. The damned have no joy whatever, and it were better for them if they had not been born (Matthew 26:24).

Hell could be a place; it could be a state. All that matters is that it is a really bad place to be.


8,040 posted on 10/03/2007 9:51:31 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: HarleyD; kosta50; MarkBsnr
Thank you for your most kind and considerate advice:

You can stay where you're at but if you move you can only go one of two ways.

I realize you see it differently from outside, but, for me, it's quite easy to recognize: it's one church; the Latin Fathers, Greek Fathers, Apostolic Fathers, Desert Fathers, the Sacraments, the Communion of Saints, Apostolic succession and on and on.

I live in the West and am Roman Catholic and I study the East. If I lived in the East I would likely be Eastern Orthodox and study the West. This is part of the incredible depth, breadth and beauty of our faith - it is never exhausted.

I read the older writings of St. Teresa of Avila or St. John OTC or St. Simeon, or the masterful compilation of theology of St John Damascene, or St. Gregory Palamas, or Bishop Bianchaninov and Theophan the Recluse on unceasing prayer, and I study the writings of more recent bishops, Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI or Bishop Kallistos Ware. I say the Rosary and I practice the Jesus Prayer. I use my rosary or komboskinia for both or either. It's the same Body of Christ throughout the centuries, through all the upheavals and conflicts and personal conflicts and trials, through the distance and different languages, it's the same Gospel, the same sacramental life.

It's all part of the same church, one church, and it's my home. There's no need to leave home to go home again.

8,043 posted on 10/03/2007 10:03:25 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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