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To: Dr. Eckleburg

To begin with, let’s understand the meaning of heretic versus apostate. The heretic retains full faith in Jesus Christ. Now how do heresies abound and sometimes flourish?

Very often in the history of Christianity, “reformers”, by whatever name, have aspired to return to “the early Church”. The Church of their own day, for whatever reason, fails to live up to what they think Christianity should be: in their view there has been a falling away from the beautiful ideals of the early Church.

Despite superficial differences in certain appearances, the worldwide Catholic Church today remains the same Church that was originally founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the other apostles back in the first century in the ancient Near East. The early Church, in other words, was always nothing else but the Catholic Church.

Let us go through a partial list of heresies and we can see which ones fit.

Gnosticism. The heretical theory that salvation comes through some special kind of knowledge, usually knowledge claimed by a special elite group. Gnostic theories existed before Christianity, and the Gnostics adapted the Gospels to their own views and for their own purposes, even composing pseudogospels, embodying their particular ideas and doctrines. Gnosticism held matter to be evil and hostile to the human spirit; it also essentially denied the truths of Christian revelation. Secular historian Jacob Burckhardt described the Gnostics as “speculative enthusiasts” who embraced Christianity only as a platform for Platonic and Oriental ideas. Gnosticism as an organized sect or body of beliefs has long been extinct, but Gnostic ideas persist and surface in some form in nearly every major heretical version of the Christian faith.

I look around at many posters and see the Gnostic influence throughout their work.

Marcionism. A second-century heresy of Marcion (ff. ca. 140) and his followers, who rejected the Old Testament and much of the New Testament, except for the Gospel of Luke and ten of the Letters of St. Paul. The Marcionists claimed to preach a purer gospel after the manner of St. Paul; for them Christianity was purely a gospel of love to the exclusion of any law.

Marcionists flourish here on FR.

Montanism. A second-century heretical movement that professed belief in a new “Church of the Spirit”. The Montanists believed they enjoyed the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. This claim meant that their fanatically rigorous views concerning morality superseded the authentic revelation of Christ that had been handed down in the Church. The heresy of Montanism, which claimed the great Tertullian (160-220) himself, was condemned by several Eastern synods and, finally, by Pope Zephyrinus around the year 202.

There are a few Montanists here too.

Novatianism. A schism that became a heresy. It originated with Novatian, a Roman priest who became an antipope, claiming the papacy in 251 in opposition to the true pope, St. Cornelius. The Novatianists adopted a moral rigorism similar to that of Donatism (see above). Those guilty of grave sin were excluded from the Church permanently, and absolution was refused to those guilty of the sins of murder and adultery.

There are some who would be their own Pope.

Subordinationism. A general name for all the fourth century heresies that admitted only God the Father as God. See the entries above for Arianism, Anomeanism, Macedonianism, Modalism, and Semi-Arianism; all of these heresies are forms of Subordinationism.

Various forms of this were resurrected during the Restoration Movement.

These are the heresies, folks, along with their definitions, from http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/kwhthd_ancntheresies_july05.asp


7,478 posted on 09/28/2007 6:48:33 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr; 1000 silverlings; Forest Keeper; Alamo-Girl; HarleyD; wmfights; xzins; P-Marlowe; ...
Your cut-and-past is all well and good, but the question wasn't "are we heretics?"

The question was, "Are we Christians?"

And you still haven't given us any reason why you would deny Forestkeeper, Alamo-girl, 1000silverlings or myself the name of Christian.

Please give us the "non Christian views" you mentioned as reasons for labeling Forest Keeper, Alamo-Girl, 1000silverlings and myself as non-Christians.

7,487 posted on 09/28/2007 10:03:00 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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