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To: MarkBsnr; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; Forest Keeper; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe
Christ paid for everyone’s sins.

If Christ paid for everyone's sins, everyone will end up in heaven. That's the deciding factor -- whether or not your sins have been forgiven by the atoning work of Christ on the cross. If He atones for all sins, all sin is forgiven and everyone ends up in heaven.

And Scripture denies this.

If God wanted all men saved, all men would be saved.

The verses from John 17 pertain to the Apostles.

LOL. Again, and over and over, you restrict Christ's words to a select few among the priestcraft -- the same select few to whom you impart mystical powers which they have no right nor ability to perform. Christ ordained the priesthood of believers. The Good News is given to His sheep; not just to the cloistered mystics who vainly imagine themselves to be "another Christ."

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5


"But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore." -- Hebrews 7:24-28


7,273 posted on 09/26/2007 11:43:33 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings

God wishes all men to come to Him with their own free will.

And you are completely ignoring the analysis of the Lord’s Prayer.

I’ll repeat it here if you wish. If this is not asking the Lord things for ourselves and for the world, what is it?

4. Give us this day our daily bread This can be understood both eucharistically and for more literal hunger of ourselves and the entire world. This request for daily provision does not mean we shouldn’t work. St. Benedict said “Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on you.”
5. And forgive us our trespasses The fact that the stipulation is added “as we forgive” is an astonishing limitation that God’s places on his forgiveness! “In refusing to forgive our brothers and sisters, our hearts are closed and their hardness makes them impervious to the Father’s merciful love” (2840). In other words, if we insist on the “right” to nurse a grudge towards someone, God may insist on his “right” to do the same to us! Ouch!
6. Lead us not into temptation With this we should keep in mind the distiction between trials which “are necessary for the grwoth of the inner man” and temptation “which leads to sin and death” (2847). The way to avoid yielding to temptation is through prayer and vigilance.
7. Deliver us from evil Keep in mind here our lesson from weeks past that Satan is real.
“In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. The devil (dia-bolos) is the one who “throws himself across” God’s plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ” (2851).
The Catechism also adds that “In this final petition, the Church brings before the Father all the distress of the world” (2854).


This is indeed about petitioning the Lord. And Jesus Himself told us to do it. How does your theology deal with it? Do you simply abridge your Bible a little more to leave out this little annoyance?


7,279 posted on 09/26/2007 12:17:45 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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