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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I was emphasizing the status or definition of the ‘elect’ under Reformed versus Catholic and therefore was not clear. I do not believe that the ‘non-elect’ will go to Heaven, but I believe that the composition of the ‘elect’ is significantly different and for different reasons than that of the Reformed.

There are two meanings of ‘elect’ - the OT and the NT meanings.

I. THE OLD TESTAMENT
The Old Testament applies the term elect, or chosen, only to the Israelites in as far as they are called to be the people of God, or are faithful to their Divine call. The idea of such an election is common in the Book of Deuteronomy and in Is., xl-lxvi. In Ps. civ, 6 and 43, and cv, 5, the chosen ones are the Hebrew people in as far as it is the recipient of God’s temporal and spiritual blessings; in Is., lxv, 9, 15 and 23, they are the repentant Israelites, as few in number “as if a grain can be found in a cluster” (ibid., 8); in Tob., xiii, 10, they are the Israelites remaining faithful during their captivity; in Wisd., iii, 9, and iv, 15, they are God’s true servants; in Ecclus., xxiv, 4, 13, and xlvi, 2, these servants of God belong to the chosen people.

II. THE NEW TESTAMENT
The New Testament transfers (excepting perhaps in Acts 13:17) the meaning of the term from its connection with the people of Israel to the members of the Church of Christ, either militant on earth or triumphant in heaven. Thus I Pet., I, 1, speaks of the elect among the “strangers dispersed” through the various parts of the world; I Pet., ii, 9, represents them as “a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people”, called from darkness into God’s marvellous light. St. Paul, too, speaks of the elect (Romans 8:33) and describes the five degrees of their election: they are foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified (loc. cit., 29, 30). He returns to the idea gain and again: II Thess., ii, 12 sq.; Col., iii, 12; Tit., I, 1, 2; II Tim., ii, 10. St. John gives the title of elect to those who fight on the side of the Lamb against the powers of darkness (Revelation 17:14). According to St. Luke (xviii, 7), God hears the cries of his elect for vengeance; according to the first two Evangelists he will shorten the last days for the sake of the elect (Matthew 24:22, 24, 31; Mark 13:20, 22, 27).

If it be asked why the name elect was given to the members of the Church Militant, we may assign a double reason: first, they were freely chosen by God’s goodness (Romans 11:5-7, 28); secondly, they must show in their conduct that they are choice men (Ephesians 4:17). In the sentence “many are called, but few are chosen”, the latter expression renders a word in the Greek and Latin text which is elsewhere translated by elect (Matthew 20:16; 22:14).

The whole world is the intent of God; those who actually accept God’s grace are necessarily less than the whole. Part of our instructions by Jesus is to evangelize the whole world; if we don’t bring the Good News to all, then we run the risk that some of them who could be saved will not be.


7,133 posted on 09/25/2007 5:49:21 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr; wmfights; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Alamo-Girl; 1000 silverlings; xzins; P-Marlowe; ...
Your recitation was interesting, but a simple definition of "elect" is all I was asking for. You're describing them. I asked for a definition of them. Who are "God's elect?"

first, they (the elect) were freely chosen by God's goodness (Romans 11:5-7, 28)

On that we agree.

secondly, they must show in their conduct that they are choice men (Ephesians 4:17).

Now that's funny because nowhere in Scripture does it say men MUST show they are "choice men." Instead, over and over Scripture says God does the choosing and thus, the elect WILL act righteously by the operation of the Holy Spirit within them, according to God's will for them.

Let's see what your example of Ephesians 4:17 actually says...

"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind," -- Eph. 4:17

Sounds like Paul is explaining what comes next in the elect's sanctification -- they will walk as a "new man" which "after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" while their "minds are renewed in the spirit" (Eph. 4:23-24).

Paul further underscores God's will by introducing himself in the first verse of Ephesians 4 as...

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called"

So while Paul and all the writers of Scripture encourage the faithful to labor in love and persevere in patience and hope, we understand that all who do so are "prisoners of the Lord," who by His will walk according to His grace.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13

7,154 posted on 09/25/2007 12:18:47 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: MarkBsnr
then we run the risk that some of them who could be saved will not be.

We evangelize, yes, but that is a gift to us from God. We can't save anyone. All whom God wills to be saved, will be saved.

John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you"

Only the elect will be saved and gathered for glory on the Day of Judgment. Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

7,157 posted on 09/25/2007 12:52:20 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.)
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