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To: Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe; xzins; Kolokotronis; jo kus; D-fendr; MarkBsnr
I said that in your theology Jesus finished nothing

Sure he did; He freed us from the bondage of death. He made it possible for us to be fully restored in the image and likeness of God (theosis).

His sacrifice applies to all whom are willing to come to Him, follow Him, and imitate Him.

But ALL of you [Catholic/Orthodox] say that future sins are NOT covered by Christ's work

They are, but we must repent of those sins in order for them to be forgiven. That's why we have the sacrament of confession.

If I sinned by offending you with my post, then did Christ die to forgive that sin? I think you would have to say "no".

Your sins are forgiven if you repent of them. Christ did not die on the cross for you to be free to sin, but to become free of sin. Unrepentant sins are not forgiven. Confession is a must.

For that I would have to apologize to you (and I do if I did :) and I would have to confess to a priest and receive absolution for that sin. What has this to do with Jesus on the cross?

Again, repentance is the key. But it seems alien to your mindset that you should repent of your sin in order for it to be forgiven. If you believe your sins are forgiven without repenting of them, then repentance becomes an "empty ritual," which may explain why the Protestants may not have such "guilty conscience," but rather consider themselves righteous in their justification that no amount of wrongdoing can affect.

I have seen the question basked a hundred times: "do you believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins, past, present, and future?" The answer from your side is always "No".

It is "No" if you don't repent.

7,038 posted on 09/23/2007 7:44:53 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
He freed us from the bondage of death. He made it possible for us to be fully restored in the image and likeness of God (theosis).

His sacrifice applies to all whom are willing to come to Him, follow Him, and imitate Him.

Isn't it amazing how many times this has been said, by members of Apostolic Churches, and some people still don't understand this basic fundamental teaching of our faith? Is this rocket science?

Regards

7,042 posted on 09/23/2007 8:00:08 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: kosta50; P-Marlowe; xzins; Kolokotronis; jo kus; D-fendr; MarkBsnr
His sacrifice applies to all whom are willing to come to Him, follow Him, and imitate Him.

Then what happens when an infant is baptized? I thought that was when the sacrifice was applied, i.e. before there is belief or will. I remember there being some kind of a proxy thing, but am not sure if you are talking about that above.

FK: "But ALL of you [Catholic/Orthodox] say that future sins are NOT covered by Christ's work."

They are, but we must repent of those sins in order for them to be forgiven. That's why we have the sacrament of confession.

OK, so it looks like you are saying that Christ's "effect" on sin is the same throughout. It allows us to ask for forgiveness for sins, and as infants this happens by proxy?

If you believe your sins are forgiven without repenting of them, then repentance becomes an "empty ritual," which may explain why the Protestants may not have such "guilty conscience", but rather consider themselves righteous in their justification that no amount of wrongdoing can affect.

Actually, none of this is correct. :) True repentance is required in order to become a child of God. We disagree on which sins that repentance applies to. You say it is ridiculous to be able to repent of future sins and we say it is ridiculous to repent and believe by proxy. :) And, we still know that God commands confession and repentance even after salvation. It is part of required perseverance, so it is not an "empty ritual".

Second, a guilty conscience does not come from one's view on the salvific nature of repentance. It comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Spirit moves all believers to want to come back to Him, and giving a guilty conscience is one motivational tool.

Third, and I admit this may be splitting hairs with what you said, but just to be clear, we do not consider ourselves righteous in our justification. We consider that we are justified because of CHRIST'S righteousness, not our own. Therefore, we are "declared" righteous, but through no merit of our own.

7,143 posted on 09/25/2007 10:41:40 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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