Then EXPLAIN why we are saying it?
Paul is distinguishing between salvation at point of belief and salvation at entry into Heaven
And lots of things can happen on the way to Paradise. People change thgeir travel plans.
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
What does that mean? Is God saying "Hello, FK, I testify to you that you are My (adopted) son?" Of course not! You think you are. You might even say that you "feel" you are. You may even say that you know you are, but you have no proof of anything—to borrow one FReeper's term "you got nothin'." By what means does God "testify" that you, specifically, are His son?
Don't get me wrong: the verse sure sounds good. But that's not what faith is about, is it?
That's not correct. Paul was encouraging us to not become slackers during the race we run during life
No, he was apparently at times preaching the exact opposite of what Christ preachesd. Like his famous saying "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." [2 Thess 3:10].
Yet the Gospel tells us "not to worry" because the "Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." [Mat 6:32-33]
Then EXPLAIN why we are saying it?
The Bible is clear that God does not tempt, that is what the tempter does. However, God certainly allows us to BE tempted. Scripture tells us that God will always provide a way out (1 Corinthians 10:13). So, in a sense we are asking God to shield us from temptation, a natural thought for the Christian. However, of course this is not always part of God's plan. But that's OK. We also ask to be given our daily bread, however, it is sometimes part of God's plan that a Christian will not have food on a given day. That's all well and good too. Neither fact negates that He wants us to pray these things.
And lots of things can happen on the way to Paradise. People change their travel plans.
And that's why I thank God every day that I didn't make my travel plans. God did. Therefore if they are His plans, then they are not mine to change. :)
[FK quoting Rom 8:15-16 :] 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
What does that mean? Is God saying "Hello, FK, I testify to you that you are My (adopted) son?" Of course not! You think you are. You might even say that you "feel" you are. You may even say that you know you are, but you have no proof of anything—to borrow one FReeper's term "you got nothin'." By what means does God "testify" that you, specifically, are His son?
I just wanted to be clear that your argument is with scripture, not me. :) Anyway, the testimony has been written into our hearts as believers. It was given to us. WE can be assured. As to the "how", Barnes says this:
[On Romans 8:16] If it be asked how this is done, I answer, it is not by any revelation of new truth; it is not by inspiration; it is not always by assurance; it is not by a mere persuasion that we are elected to eternal life; but it is by producing in us the appropriate effects of his influence. It is his to renew the heart; to sanctify the soul; to produce "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance," Gal 5:22-23. If a man has these, he has evidence of the witnessing of the Spirit with his spirit.
If not, he has no such evidence. And the way, therefore, to ascertain whether we have this witnessing of the Spirit, is by an honest and prayerful inquiry whether these fruits of the Spirit actually exist in our minds. If they do, the evidence is clear. If not, all vain confidence of good estate; all visions, and raptures, and fancied revelations, will be mere delusions. It may be added, that the effect of these fruits of the Spirit an the mind is to produce a calm and heavenly frame; and in that frame, when attended with the appropriate fruits of the Spirit in a holy life, we may rejoice as an evidence of piety.(emphasis added)
Here is some supporting scripture:
2 Cor 1:21-22 : 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
1 John 5:10-11 : 10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 Cor 2:12 : 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
I know that I cannot prove to your satisfaction that I am saved, but the good news is that I do not need to. :) I rejoice that I can know.
[continuing:] Don't get me wrong: the verse sure sounds good. But that's not what faith is about, is it?
It sounds like it pretty much does to me! :) What is the Apostolic view of the passage?
No, [Paul] was apparently at times preaching the exact opposite of what Christ preached. Like his famous saying "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." [2 Thess 3:10]. Yet the Gospel tells us "not to worry" because the "Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." [Mat 6:32-33]
OK, so what is the correct resolution to this apparent dilemma? Is it to declare Paul wrong and Jesus right? Or, is the solution to look at other scripture to see if there is a way for both of them to be right? I always choose the latter. In this case, it isn't even hard. One verse to consider is from Genesis:
Gen 3:19 : By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
Doesn't this sound EXACTLY like what Paul is saying? So at this point we have Jesus on the one hand, and the writings of Moses, which Jesus specifically affirms, on the other. Which Jesus is right? Why both are of course. The teaching of Mat 6:32-33 is NOT to sit on our rumps and wait for everything to be handed to us. This would fail all of God's action Commandments. So, that can't be it. Maybe, instead the point is that we should always TRUST in God to provide AS WE WORK. That whole passage speaks to having a Godly perspective and not getting caught up with the cares of the world. God will take care of all that. We should just do our jobs and serve Him. In most cases, part of that service is involved with working to provide food.