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To: xzins; P-Marlowe; D-fendr; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl
Are you saying

I am glad you brought this up. My views on this are a little "un-orthodox" but they are my views, so don't be going on bashing the EO Church for my views. 

The Passover lamb is killed not for the atonement of sins but out of gratitude for deliverance from captivity and death. It has nothing to do with forgiveness of assumption of sins. The Passover lamb is slain and eaten as a thanksgiving meal, not a sacrifice offered to God in the Temple.

Here we have the first problem: by saying "Eat, this is my Body..." Christ makes Himself to be the Passover Lamb, a thanksgiving meal, not a sacrifice (sacrifices were ritually killed on the altar and burned as an offering to God).

The blood of the lamb was used not to wash away the sins, but as a "marker" on the doors in order for the Spirit (the giver of life!) , on a first-born human and animal killing spree, to "know" [sic] the inhabitants were Hebrews so as not  to kill their firstborn (as if God needs "markers," LOL!).

Thus, the blood was salvific in this sense, but it is not consumed.  Here is where the problem arises—again: Christ says "Drink, this is the Cup of my Blood..." yet Jewish Kosher Laws strictly prohibit consumption of any kind of blood!

Is this breaking of the Law? So, not only is consuming the blood of the lamb not in keeping with the Passover tradition, but it raises the issue of breaking Kosher laws.

Finally, just around this time of the year, about six months after the Passover, the Jews atone for their sins (Yom Kippur). The animal which takes on our sins in this ritual feast is a goat, not a lamb!More importantly, the goat is not ritualistically sacrificed and offered as burnt offerings, nor is it simply killed! There is no blood involved.

The Jews place their hands on the head of a goat  (magically "transferring" their sins on to the poor animal) and the goat is then set free to run away with their sins! And they tell me Jews are not pagans!

So, you see, the whole story is somewhat mixed-up. Add to this the fact that the festival of the palms (Sukkot) does not take place around Passover (March/April), but around October, and we have to wonder where did the Palm Sunday come from, since it is unknown as a Jewish feast.

So, when you ask me if I am saying  Jesus is not “The Lamb of God," I am telling you it's not that clear-cut. There are elements that seem to support that notion, but there are elements that clearly do not.

6,722 posted on 09/19/2007 5:46:54 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Very good, Kosta!


6,723 posted on 09/19/2007 5:49:24 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50

This may be of some interest here...


http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~landquis/7atonement.html

The scapegoat and Azazel. There is some debate as to the correct translation for the word `aza’zel (Strong #05799). Most translations render this word “scapegoat,” from the combination of the words `ez, “goat” (Strong #05795) and ‘azal, “to go away” (Strong #235). In Jewish tradition, however, Azazel was a fallen angel who was judged by God for his wickedness in leading other fallen angels and humans into sin. A record of this judgement is in the apocryphal/pseudepigraphal book of 1 Enoch, in a passage that fleshes out the events of Genesis 6. [A, E] There are no capital letters in Hebrew, so there is no indication from the text as to whether the word `aza’zel is a proper name or not, so there is speculation as to which meaning was intended. Is it possible that both meanings are important? We will explore both meanings for the purpose of fleshing out the significance of the scapegoat.

What does the idea of scapegoat, or sending away this goat as a substitute for sin mean?

Before we explore what significance, if any, is attached to the name “Azazel,” we should do a little background in 1 Enoch. The book was written likely by several authors in the second century BC, so it clearly postdates Leviticus 16 in its written form. However, Jude, the half-brother of Yeshua, quotes a portion of it in his epistle as prophecy, attributing this prophecy to Enoch. (See Jude 14-15.) By crediting this prophecy to Enoch, it appears that the book was known at least in oral tradition since Enoch’s day. In my opinion, this book carries some degree of weight, but at the very least, and most importantly for our study here, it provides insight into the Hebrew mind and traditions in Biblical times. The only question that remains is whether or not Azazel went by another name before the Book of Enoch was written. Let’s assume for now that it was the same. What connection and significance might Azazel have to the scapegoat? In the book of Enoch, Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel, four archangels bring this charge to Yahuwah,

“’Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn.” (1 Enoch 9:6b-7a)

“And again the Lord said to Raphael ‘Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.’” (1 Enoch 10:4b-9a, underline added)

There are two things to note here. One aspect of sending the scapegoat away into the wilderness “for Azazel” was that it was going to the Abyss in which Azazel was cast. The other aspect is sin. What was placed on the scapegoat, and how does that relate to Azazel?



6,727 posted on 09/19/2007 6:33:47 PM PDT by monkfan
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To: kosta50; xzins; P-Marlowe; D-fendr; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl

Why did Christ die on the cross? What purpose did it serve?


6,728 posted on 09/19/2007 7:13:26 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Buggman; kosta50; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Kolokotronis

I think you’re a bit off base with the purpose of both the Passover Lamb and the offering of a Lamb in general.

The Lamb was intercessory, not for thanksgiving. The blood of the Lamb interceded for me with God.

That is why its says, “The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”

The Lamb interceded. Certainly, I’m thankful for that, but the purpose of the blood was not so that I’d be thankful. The purpose of the blood was to set up a sign of mercy between me & my sin and God.


6,729 posted on 09/19/2007 7:59:36 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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