We have most certainly have had this discussion before. If you recall, I gave you a number of examples where judgment is to heaven OR hell. While a few passages could be taken to mean "rewards" judgment, such as the parable of the talents, the majority of Jesus's parables speak of an either heaven/hell judgment, such as the Wedding Feast. There will be no "gnashing of teeth" as a reward!
The simple fact remains that this idea really doesn't follow the Scriptures. Men are judged based on how they utilize the graces from God. No, they don't earn anything, because NO ONE can say "look what I done by myself". But it is very clear that we are to obey commandments and we are subsequently judged FOR HEAVEN OR HELL based on our following God's will.
For example:
Strive to enter in at the narrow gate; (ouch, that hurts the "God does everything" idea, doesn't it?) for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in and shall not be able. When once the husband of the house is risen up and shall have shut the door, and ye begin to stand without and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not from where ye are, then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say unto you, I know you not from where ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity. In that place shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth when ye shall see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out. And [others] shall come from the east and [from] the west and from the north and [from] the south and shall sit [at the table] in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. Luke 13:24-30
I actually remember from before that in expressing it, you had the most optimistic views in this area amongst your like minded brethren. :)
Nyuk, nyuk, I'm just a happy-go-lucky guy!
Regards
I agree that we've talked about this before, and I think that back then I acknowledged that many verses could be taken either way. I've never done a count so I don't know what the majority is. I just say that there are BOTH judgments.
The simple fact remains that this idea really doesn't follow the Scriptures. Men are judged based on how they utilize the graces from God. No, they don't earn anything, because NO ONE can say "look what I done by myself".
To me this still seems like a 180 degree contradictory statement. In the second sentence you say that men are judged for salvation on what they do. In the third sentence you say no one earns anything for salvation because of what he did. You can have one or the other, or neither, but you cannot have both. :)
But it is very clear that we are to obey commandments and we are subsequently judged FOR HEAVEN OR HELL based on our following God's will.
And yet you just finished telling me that we do not merit entry into Heaven. Perhaps the entire concepts of "merit" or "earning" or "works" have theological meanings that appear no where in dictionaries. That must be the case since I have never been able to even follow this line of reasoning. :)
[From Luke 13:24-30: (with commentary)] Strive to enter in at the narrow gate; (ouch, that hurts the "God does everything" idea, doesn't it?) ...
Not at all. The Bible was written FOR us, not FOR God. "God doing everything" includes His putting those words there so that someday I will read them and be motivated to follow them. We humans need motivation and God uses different methods of accomplishing that. A large amount of that is contained in the encouragements and teachings we get in the Bible.
[continuing] ... for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in and shall not be able.
True, false believers exist and will be turned away at the end. OTOH, true believers have already had their places made in Heaven by Christ Himself. (John 14:2-3)