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To: Forest Keeper

If Christians can be sure of salvation, why did Paul pray for mercy on behalf of Onesiphorus?

If Paul hopes for his own salvation, it must mean that he wasn’t sure of it. Rom 8:24-25

He definitely wasn’t sure about his own salvation in Phil. 3:11-14

If Peter wasn’t, and Paul wasn’t, how is it that the Elect are sure?


6,659 posted on 09/19/2007 9:23:59 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; MHGinTN; kosta50
If Christians can be sure of salvation, why did Paul pray for mercy on behalf of Onesiphorus?

God commands prayer, even on things that are already lead pipe cinches. The Lord's Prayer is full of these. For example, we are to pray that God will not lead us into temptation, yet scripture SPECIFICALLY tells us that God does not tempt. Is therefore that part of the Lord's Prayer a waste? Of course not. Same thing here.

If Paul hopes for his own salvation, it must mean that he wasn’t sure of it. Rom 8:24-25

LOL! No. Paul is distinguishing between salvation at point of belief and salvation at entry into Heaven. The completion of salvation is what he is speaking of here. It has nothing to do with certainty, it has to do with time. Just 10 verses earlier he says:

Rom 8:15-16 : 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Past tense. Done deal. In fact, I'm sure you know that my side uses Paul as a primary source for salvational assurance. It is everywhere in his writings. I presume it is one of the big reasons why some Apostolics around here do not like Paul and think that his theology is wrong. :) Do you remember all the "high-five" posts that you and Kosta (and others) have traded on this thread? I mean the ones in which you called us "Paulines" and said that we disagree with the Gospels because we think that Paul's teachings are sound? I read them all.

He definitely wasn’t sure about his own salvation in Phil. 3:11-14

That's not correct. Paul was encouraging us to not become slackers during the race we run during life. He was saying that he hadn't reached the final salvation yet, because he was still alive and God had more for him to do. Perseverance was important to Paul and we agree with him. But Paul never taught a (comparatively) works-based salvation model. Paul infamously taught that salvation was by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9, et. al). And, he taught assurance in many places, such as:

2 Tim 4:6-8 : 6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race , I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day — and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Paul was absolutely certain of his salvation, as fellow Reformers are today. :) Paul also said this:

2 Tim 1:12 : That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day.

Paul doesn't "wish", he is convinced. He KNOWS.

6,947 posted on 09/21/2007 12:32:42 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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