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To: P-Marlowe
I didn't think you believed in the devil

The ancient Jews don't believe in the devil, PM. The idea of the devil is a latter-day occurrence in Judaism, influenced by Zoroastrianism and accepted by apocalyptic Jewish groups. The NT references to the devil come from "Apocrypha" which you Protestants reject.

I have unanswered questions regarding the devil. I think there is one in every one of us.

6,616 posted on 09/18/2007 9:04:38 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; P-Marlowe
Marlowe: "I didn't think you believed in the devil."

Kosta: "The ancient Jews don't believe in the devil, PM. The idea of the devil is a latter-day occurrence in Judaism, influenced by Zoroastrianism and accepted by apocalyptic Jewish groups. The NT references to the devil come from "Apocrypha" which you Protestants reject. I have unanswered questions regarding the devil. I think there is one in every one of us."

Well, apparently the Orthodox Church has no problem with the concept of the devil being a real and distinct entity. Here is the introduction to an article about Exorcism in the Orthodox Church by Rev. George C. Papademetriou, Ph.D. I feel like I've posted this before, but no matter :) :

"The Doctrine of Evil -- To understand the Orthodox view and practice of exorcism, one must know the Orthodox presuppositions of evil and its doctrine of Satan. The patristic evidence points to the fact that the cause of evil in the world is the devil. The devil was created by God as an angel, who was free, and as a free agent chose to oppose the plan of God. That is, the devil is a fallen angel. Satan is not evil by nature, but by will and action. In Satan there is no truth whatsoever; he is absolute falsehood and deception. Satan is not just a negation or deprivation of good, but a positive force with free will that always chooses evil. The devil has the ability to recognize divine power, as in the incident of recognizing Christ as the Son of God (Matt. 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-3). Satan has under his leadership legions and invisible powers, with their own "satanic teachings." The devil and evil spirits know that God exists and recognize true and devoted Christians, but pious Christians discern the plans of the devil. The devil, however, constantly employs every method of deception to enslave man to satanic forces and causes rebellion against God. He is the cause of corruption and disorder, a parasitic power in the world that will ultimately be destroyed by the power of God in the "last days." Because there is no compromise between God and the devil, the struggle will continue until the end.

The Orthodox doctrine of God is that He is eternal, uncreated and incorporeal. All other creatures, both visible and invisible, were created by God as free. The power of the devil will ultimately be destroyed by the resurrection of the dead and the renewal of creation. Salvation from all evil will be attained by obedience to God and His plan. This world is a battleground between the acceptance of good and evil. It must be pointed out that the world as the creation of God is not evil. What is evil is the satanic power, destroyed by the power of the cross and the resurrection of Christ.

Dr. Papademetriou is apparently authorized to represent the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. He clearly disagrees with the ancient Jews you were referencing. In addition, he would agree with you that there is a "devil" inside all humans, but they are exorcised at Baptism, according to him:

"The demonic possession of individuals and even of objects, has been accepted by the Orthodox Church today in the Sacrament of Baptism, in exorcising satanic powers in the case of the evil eye (vaskania), and in exorcising the devil in the case of a possessed person. In the early Church exorcisms were performed by a person especially trained and appointed to pray to drive out evil from those about to be baptized."

This is pretty weird sounding to me, but if you'd like to comment ... :)

6,835 posted on 09/21/2007 3:47:21 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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