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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; xzins; P-Marlowe; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; D-fendr; hosepipe
My goodness, how cynical. You are in for a big surprise. God wrote the names of His family for the next heaven and earth from the foundation of this world --- and every one of us loves Him surpassingly above all else, including our neighbors - and ourselves

And that must be true because—you say so? Your comment does not show a motive. It simply states that some were "booked" before they weren't even around. If it is true that some "love" God because they were "booked" before foundations of the world, then it's no love.

You call reality cynicism. Yet, you can't offer anything tangible to show that people would still praise God if there were nothing in for them. There is not a single church in this world that doesn't offer something. There is not a single church in the world that exists only to praise God and not in which the people expect nothing in return.

6,342 posted on 09/15/2007 11:07:19 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; xzins; P-Marlowe; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; D-fendr; hosepipe
and not in which the people expect nothing in return
6,343 posted on 09/15/2007 11:09:11 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
We love Him because He first loved us.
1 John 4:19


6,346 posted on 09/15/2007 11:47:15 PM PDT by .30Carbine (and we love our neighbor because love is of God and we jus' cain't hep it now that He lives in us)
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To: kosta50; .30Carbine; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; xzins; P-Marlowe; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; D-fendr; ...
You call reality cynicism. Yet, you can't offer anything tangible to show that people would still praise God if there were nothing in for them. There is not a single church in this world that doesn't offer something.

Do you really believe the proud ("what's in it for me?") have any part in the new heaven and new earth?

Pride is a symptom of a reprobate mind and is an abomination to God:

And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. – Romans 1:28-32

These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. – Proverbs 6:16-19

The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Every one [that is] proud in heart [is] an abomination to the LORD: [though] hand [join] in hand, he shall not be unpunished. By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil. – Proverbs 16:4-6

The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. – Proverbs 8:13

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. – Mark 7:20-23

Consider how fundamental the sin of pride:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. – Genesis 3:4-6

Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. – Ezekial 28:15-17

Does not pride rest at the very root of the most obvious sins? Murder, theft, adultery, disobedience, rebellion?

And does it not also rest at the very root of the sins we barely notice? Want, complaint, anxiety, worry, jealousy, disbelief?

And is it not the very reason people withhold mercy from one another – or judge one another?

At the moment God’s adopted children realize His power – there is nothing but abject spiritual humility in the presence of His glory.

Consider Paul who had every reason for pride in his day but he lost all of it on the road to Damascus when he was touched by the power of God:

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. – Philippians 3:3-16

Thus we “deny ourselves” and thus we are “dead and our lives are hid with Christ in God.” And thus, counting ourselves dead and forsaking all else – we love Him surpassingly above all else, trusting Him to live through us:

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. – Galatians 2:20

If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. – Luke 14:26-33

But we are like toddlers before Him as we finish out our mortal life. When we are about to touch a hot stove, He moves us. When we are hurt, He comforts us. When we are confused, He tells us what we need to know. When we wander off, He finds us. When we ask Him to lift us up, He does. And when we throw a fit or treat another toddler disrespectfully (artifacts of the pride of the flesh) - He spanks us.

Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” is an example to all of us who struggle with pride. If we need help to overcome our pride, He may also permit us to suffer a “thorn in the flesh” or He may prune us Himself.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. – 2 Corinthians 12:7

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:1-5

That is another Spiritual Truth – nothing happens in the life of one of God’s children unless either He permits it or does it. Let go and let God – He will never leave us or forsake us.

Love God surpassingly above all else, believe Him, trust Him, give Him the glory!

The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want...

6,356 posted on 09/16/2007 8:54:59 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: kosta50; blue-duncan; xzins; P-Marlowe; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; D-fendr; hosepipe; Forest Keeper; ...
ALAMO-GIRL: You are in for a big surprise. God wrote the names of His family for the next heaven and earth from the foundation of this world --- and every one of us loves Him surpassingly above all else, including our neighbors - and ourselves

KOSTA: And that must be true because—you say so?

No, because the word of God says so.

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." -- Psalm 139:16


"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" -- Ephesians 1:3-5

Your comment does not show a motive. It simply states that some were "booked" before they weren't even around. If it is true that some "love" God because they were "booked" before foundations of the world, then it's no love.

The motive is God's will, Kosta, as it always is. And this is exactly what love is. It is God loving us before we love Him.

"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

We love him, because He first love us." -- 1 John 4:16-19

Like A-G said, Kosta. Relax. You have been forgiven. The rest is clean-up and it's easier when we know that's the way it's supposed to be.
6,367 posted on 09/16/2007 12:56:27 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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