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To: jo kus
However, it is not your perseverance, at least from what I gather. According to my understanding of reformed theology, man plays no part, it is ALL God.

That's right. Perseverance is necessary, and it is also guaranteed by God. Man does nothing of his own for salvation.

It would be senseless to be commanded to do anything if we didn't have the ability (with God's aide) to do it.

That's also right. God enables us to obey His commands. The difference is that by the time this happens, salvation is already "accomplished". Sanctification is the operative process at this point.

All wisdom, for example, comes from God. But He willingly GIVES it to those who ask. Thus, it is indeed OUR righteousness, given to us by God.

We would agree that all wisdom comes from God. We would continue that He willingly GIVES it to those whom He chooses. Thus, it is indeed HIS righteousness that is imputed to us.

6,162 posted on 09/13/2007 11:56:27 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
I wrote: However, it is not your perseverance, at least from what I gather. According to my understanding of reformed theology, man plays no part, it is ALL God.

You responded: That's right. Perseverance is necessary, and it is also guaranteed by God. Man does nothing of his own for salvation.

Forgive me, but WHOSE perseverance? God's? If God's perseverance is the ENTIRE focus, then what is the point of the entire Bible's direction to persevere, written to men??? Who exactly is judged? God's perseverance??? Logically, this makes no sense to me.

God enables us to obey His commands. The difference is that by the time this happens, salvation is already "accomplished". Sanctification is the operative process at this point.

Yes, God enables us to obey. Regarding salvation, it depends on your definition of salvation. Are you refering to that past event where you first accepted our Lord as your Savior and repented of your sins? Because we have not yet received the other kind of salvation, our entrance into heaven, which is not yet secured. It is based on hope (and OUR perseverance in Christ!)

We would agree that all wisdom comes from God. We would continue that He willingly GIVES it to those whom He chooses. Thus, it is indeed HIS righteousness that is imputed to us.

It's more than that, because you admit that we have been given the ability to obey. This cannot happen unless the man is ALSO involved. It cannot be said that we obey anything if God does it all. We certainly cannot take credit for anything, whether natural or supernatural gifts. However, as St. Augustine says, we ARE merely returning the good gifts that our Father has given us. Even that implies a decision and an act on the part of man. And that is what God desires - a free-will response from man. For otherwise, there is nothing to save if man has no free will.

Regards

6,172 posted on 09/13/2007 3:07:34 PM PDT by jo kus
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