Replies

But if you look at some of the people who put rev in front of their names, sometimes you gotta think that casting lots couldn't do a whole lot worse ....

Yes, that is certainly true. I just wonder whether in fact that casting lots is truly a Godly method of choosing. It may have been a Jewish custom, but was it Christian? I'm skeptical on that. :)

But I wasn't talking about the manner so much as the perceived need and authority. The eleven thought they had to and they thought they could.

Plus, as alluded to, there is the matter that an Apostle must be sent of God. We know for sure that Paul passes that test, but I don't think we are told one way or the other about Matthias. But interestingly, if it came down to lots, then what authority exactly did the 11 exhibit? Either God fixed the game or it was by random chance. (Is that right?) In my understanding, there was no "vote" taken for Matthias, so there is no way the 11 exerted any authority to choose the successor.

Certainly the choosing by lots methodology seems to have died out during the early Christian era. The (Jewish) Apostles choosing Matthias may have continued using their Jewish methodology for a while; I’m not aware of any record of either for or against.

The Apostles most certainly exercised their authority in choosing a replacement Apostle. The only thing that we may look at slightly askance at is in their methodology. Not in the fact that they did decide to replace Judas.

The selection of Paul would seem to be outside of the normal selection methodology; but that is for God to decide and to do, not man. All we can do is utilize the methodology that we were shown.

When Matthias was 'selected' by lots (talk about the clueless disciples, 'so, God, You who know the hearts of ALL men, select one of these two we disciples have brought before you') by a group of men who were still in the dark prior to Pentecost. Matthias got the short or long straw and was never heard from again. Was he one of the twelve? Would he have been had the disciples waited until Pentecost to replace Judas? The selection Jesus made on the road to Damascus tells us that Paul was the correct choice for what God intend the disciples-turned-Apostles at Pentecost to accomplish. There will be no difinitive answer regarding Matthias this side of Heaven, but if we look at how clueless and floundering the disciples were from the moment Jesus set His face to go to Jerusalem and following the crucifixion, we get a hint that they were not yet embued with the Holy Spirit to the extent they would need to evangelize the world and establish God's Church age ... they needed the Holy Spirit of Promise for that work and I posit that they needed the Holy Spirit to bring a twelfth into their number and having failed to wait upon the Lord (just like Abram and Sarai failed to wait), Jesus made the selection and empowered the man Saul to be an Apostle.

I sure am enjoying this series of exchanges you big dogs are having. Time for me to get back up on the porch.

OK, and of course there are plenty of Protestants who would say that Paul was the 12th Apostle, but I didn't go down that road in my first post because I couldn't justify it scripturally to my satisfaction. I'm just not sure. Paul was clearly chosen and sent directly by God, so he WAS an Apostle. But I don't know if he was one of the Biblical 12.

Scripture mentions the twelve tribes and the twelve apostles, but there are fourteen named tribes and fourteen named apostles. I believe that patterns in scripture are one of the ways that God directs our attention to other things.

Seven