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To: D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg
To wit, how do you read this verse:

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Is God exempt or are some little ones exempt? or...?

The reference is to Luke 17:2, and I think it is first important to understand what "offend" means. From Strong's:

NT:4624 skandalizo (skan-dal-id'-zo) ("scandalize"); from NT:4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble [transitively] or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure): KJV - (make to) offend.

It means to cause to sin. IOW, to "tempt". So, it is not a matter of God being "exempt", rather it is a matter of this being inapplicable to God, since the scriptures plainly tell us that God does not tempt us. While in the narrow sense this verse certainly applies to literal children who are believers (the companion verses Matt. 18:6 and Mark 9:42 leave no doubt that believers are only being referenced), in the general sense it can apply to all believers who have holy child-like faith. The message is that if any of us believers leads any other believer into sin, we are going to be subject to great punishment for it.

6,133 posted on 09/13/2007 6:06:26 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

Believers? What is the difference between the believer and the elect? Is there are difference at all? Can one believe and not be of the elect?

And what would the great punishment be? If you are saved and are going to Heaven, what would the punishment be? I believe that you have alluded earlier to earthly punishment that would occur before death, but I am still kinda fuzzy on that.


6,135 posted on 09/13/2007 6:23:18 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: Forest Keeper
Thanks for your reply. I think it's very creative.

How do read these similar verses:

Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.


6,168 posted on 09/13/2007 1:48:12 PM PDT by D-fendr
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