[MarkBsnr]

The Marcionite heresy found a safe and secure home in the Reformation, didn’t it. You gave him Gospels and he gave you Paul back as well. He didn’t even consider the Gospels worthy of considering, except for possibly Luke.

You guys have been skating around the examples I’ve kept on posting. Would you do me the favour and answer if the examples that I have posted from Numbers or Genesis are as important as the Sermon on the Mount?

This discussion is going nowhere fast because you guys keep diverting from my main point.

I will answer once again that good works alone do not get you into Heaven. The Lord knows that I keep repeating this and I guess that I will have to keep on repeating it. God’s grace is required to get into Heaven, yet, if man rejects God’s grace, then he will not.

You guys don’t seem to understand the mathematical concept of ‘and’. You point to a verse, sometimes in context and sometimes not, and say ‘this means this’ and absolutely ignore anything else in the Bible except other cherry picked verses that can also be interpreted as ‘this.’ Whereas in truth, when looking for the entrance requirements to Heaven, one must read the entire Bible and put it all together.

Let’s face it: you guys attack the Church for pointing out what the path to salvation is as told to us all by Jesus Christ. Instead, you have a revived heresy imported from the second century and fine tuned to the point where you have come up with the concept of the wrathful and sullen OT God who delights in condemning portions of His creation to hell simply because he can. The only people touting this are the ones convinced that they are of the elect. Gnosis provides the convincing. You guys accuse the Church of snobbish elitism. It isn’t the Church that condemns anyone to hell; your philosophy has artificially created the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ and blamed God for them.

And, like Marcion, you point mainly to Paul for support. And, like Marcion, you get it wrong.

[HarleyD]

The Marcionite heresy found a safe and secure home in the Reformation

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The Reformation believes the church is a continuation of those faithful Jews chosen by God. We trace our heritage back to Abraham and Issac. This btw was the Church's teaching up until the 1900s until it was abandon by the Church who now wishes to appease Jews rather than see them saved.

Instead I would claim that the Church is steeped in nothing more than the Pelagius heresy that was thoroughly condemned by the Augustine and the Council of Orange. Man saving themselves or man being saved by their works is no different.

You guys have been skating around the examples I’ve kept on posting. Would you do me the favour and answer if the examples that I have posted from Numbers or Genesis are as important as the Sermon on the Mount?

What specific example are you citing? The only example I've seen is Matthew 25 which I answered. You just didn't like my answer. Where did the Sermon on the Mount come from-or Numbers or Genesis for that matter? I'm not Mr. Bible-Answer Man but I probably can figure it out. Most of it isn't that hard to read.

I will answer once again that good works alone do not get you into Heaven....God’s grace is required to get into Heaven, yet, if man rejects God’s grace, then he will not.

It isn't just grace according to your comment. It is 1) God's grace, 2) acceptance of that grace, and 3) good works. God does 1/3 and man does 2/3. Doesn't that sum it up? And if God offers this grace to everyone, as you claim, then what is there for God to do?

Instead, you have a revived heresy imported from the second century and fine tuned to the point where you have come up with the concept of the wrathful and sullen OT God who delights in condemning portions of His creation to hell simply because he can.

Let's put the facts on the table. God created both the angels and man knowing they would fall. God created hell for these fallen angels and mankind. Everyone starts out on the path to hell. Just because God, who is rich in mercy, decides to spare some, does not make God "wrathful or sullen". Instead it makes Him merciful and gracious.

Some simply refuse to understand this fact because it doesn't fit with the kind of Care Bear creature of how they preceive God to be. It isn't fair in the minds of some that God would send some to eternal torment. Sorry, that isn't what the scriptures tells us.

The only people touting this are the ones convinced that they are of the elect. Gnosis provides the convincing.

The church has always considered themselves the elect as far back as our Lord Jesus (even farther). I can't help it if you do not feel you're part of the elect. Had Peter written you calling you the elect you would probably have been confused.

It isn’t the Church that condemns anyone to hell; your philosophy has artificially created the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ and blamed God for them.

All men are doom to hell. I would hope that the Church would be preaching that but, hey, this is the 21st century and nobody wants to hear it.

There is no artificial barriers of 'haves' and 'haves not'. There are only those who are 'slaves to sin' and 'slaves to righteousness' (Rom 6). Those who have been set free by God's grace and mercy do not blame God but rejoice that we have been set free by His power. It is up to Him who He wishes to set free.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.