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To: Forest Keeper

Are you saying that doing something that God wants and you are not a believer, then you are not doing His will?

This is getting good. Also, could you differentiate between ‘believer’ and ‘elect’ for me please? I’m getting lost in the translation.


6,128 posted on 09/13/2007 5:18:15 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg
Are you saying that doing something that God wants and you are not a believer, then you are not doing His will?

Yes, in the same sense that the Cardinals are not "doing my will" when they win ball games. When we are lost we do not have the capacity to do God's will, or please Him. There is no obedience, so there can be no "good". Now, in a separate sense, when Judas betrayed Jesus (for example) it was "consistent" with what God wanted to happen, but Judas did not "do" God's will.

Also, could you differentiate between ‘believer’ and ‘elect’ for me please? I’m getting lost in the translation.

Since I do not believe that a true believer can lose his salvation, I think that a true believer is the same as an elect. The Bible tells us that there are both true believers (those who have received Christ in fact) and false believers (those who claim to have done so but have not). We have the ability to know if we are among the true believers, but we cannot be absolutely certain about anyone else. One of my exceedingly rare liberal traits is to always give the benefit of the doubt to one who professes, until I have solid evidence to the contrary. :) That's why, while I may have profound disagreement with the FR Apostolics that I know, I do not question their Christianity.

6,287 posted on 09/14/2007 6:32:50 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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