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To: MHGinTN

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByScripture/13/1085_Does_James_Contradict_Paul/

The above is a site where Reformed doctrine is preached. The man in question, DR. John Piper, is an excellant source of wisdom and insite. He does a much better job than me. Please read it if you can access it.


6,005 posted on 09/11/2007 10:24:00 PM PDT by irishtenor (There is no "I" in team, but there are two in IDIOT.)
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To: irishtenor

Morning, sir.

I am struck by the text of Dr. Piper’s attempt to reconcile James 2 with Romans 3-4.

The only reference to the Gospels is to John 10:35, which appears to take the reference to the Gospels slightly out of context.

If we are trying to reconcile faith with works, why would one not go to the entire chapter of Matt 5; Matt 25, Rev 20, and so on? Why are we trying to reconcile the words of men with each other, when we should be trying to reconcile them with the words of Christ? I really don’t understand the emphasis here.

Are we Christians or are we Paulines?


6,052 posted on 09/12/2007 8:06:55 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: irishtenor; MarkBsnr; Alamo-Girl
From the essay you linked:

But then James notices that in Genesis 22:1 "God tested Abraham" by commanding him to offer up his son Isaac. What was God testing? He was testing his faith. What was he looking for? He was looking for the kind of obedience or works that shows Abraham's faith was not dead faith or devil faith or useless faith. So the issue in James 2:21 (where Abraham offers Isaac) is not the first act of justification that put Abraham in a right standing with God. The issue is the test: was Abraham's faith the living kind of faith that produces the "obedience of faith" or the dead kind that has no effect on life?

Without arguing over nuances, allow me to offer the following alternate perspective. The King James translation uses the verb 'believe' where it ought to be using 'faithe'. Greek nouns are derived from the verbs. The word faith (pistis) is translated properly, but 'faithe' (pisteuo) is translated 'believe'. Try this definition of 'faithe': action based upon belief in the promise(s) of God sustained by confidence built from learning God keeps His promises. This is the 'ABCs' of faith.

Faithe is an action word, where the Holy Spirit instigates the impulse and the faither acts accordingly to be transformed, made new in Christ Jesus ... a life-long process begun at the conversion moment. James tries to explain how the manifestations of God in you are measured as works completing saving faith. Paul tries to explain that only the faithing person is saved and being transformed by the working of the Holy Spirit in you and the fruit of this transformation are good works which God has prepared for you to manifest in your life behavior after the salvation/the Born Again moment.

In the cited passage above, allow me to offer the following regarding the 'works' of Abraham and Rahab, from the perspective of this 'faithing' principle which reconciles James and Paul, works and faithe. James was slightly off in his assignment of the saving 'faithe' because James focused upon the work of Abraham in sacrificing his son (as the essayist states it, the test) when James should have focused upon the 'faithing' at work in Abraham when he confirmed his faith that God would keep His promises that through Isaac would the blessing come. James missed the mark slightly when he focused upon the deeds of Rahab and failed to focus upon Rahab 'faithing' in the promise from Joshua that when she in faithing let down the red cord she and her household would be spared.

We are heirs to the atonement accomplished by Jesus when we 'faithe' in the promise of God that this redemption is all we need to be reborn in spirit, and Jesus taught precisely that to Nicodemus and to Philip. Once the 'faither' exercises 'faith' in the promise of God, the faithing process is activated by which the Holy Spirit activates transformation which results in outward manifestations of this 'faithing' in God's promises!

So, James is right, in his out-of-focus assertion that pretend faithe will not manifest works the Holy Spirit has authored in us/through us, but more accurately, he could have pointed to the believing God, 'faithing' principle, which results in the word (logos) he spoke to Isaac 'that God would provide a sacrifice' and expressed this same amen level (highest level of faithe) when he told the servants that 'they would come back down when they were finished with the sacrifice'.

Jesus affirmed this perspective with his comment regarding the Centurion who asked Jesus to speak and his household servant would be healed, for Jesus said 'I have not seen such 'faithe' in all of Israel.' The Centurion understood authority and logos (the word sent forth empowered by and in exercise of 'faithe') and matter-of-factly expressed his faithe in the authority of Jesus to heal the ailing servant.

In light of James out-of-focus epistle, if James explained this Centurion event, he would focus upon the Centurion coming to Jesus directly, boldly, to ask on behalf of the servant. If Paul explained this event, he would focus upon the Centurion 'faithing' in Jesus's authority when he said Jesus need not come to his unworthy gentile home but just speak the word to save the servant. So, we see how both James and Paul can be correct if we but refocus our perspective to comprehend 'faithe' for 'faithe cometh b hearing and hearing by the Word of God.'

6,070 posted on 09/12/2007 10:53:23 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: irishtenor

BTW, I want to thank you for the link to Pastor John Piper’s teaching. I will get much needed hours of instruction from such fine teaching. Thank you again. I do so enjoy listening to and studying good preaching of sound doctrine.


6,089 posted on 09/12/2007 1:18:02 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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