Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; wmfights; Alamo-Girl; Cronos; hosepipe; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg; ...
We know God is present EVERYWHERE, since anything that exists absolutely relies on God's effects. Thus, technically speaking, God doesn't "leave" a person in mortal sin, since then, that person would cease to exist. However, when we speak of indwelling, I think we are talking about something more than the Holy Spirit keeping us in existence.

Yes, I see what you're saying. So, in the non-omnipresent sense the Spirit "leaves" at mortal sin and rejoins upon resolution. That's pretty close to what I thought the position was, and it is consistent within itself.

I don't see it that way given that the Spirit is a permanent seal, and we have all the verses telling us that God will not lose any of His sheep and that He will never forsake His children. He loved us WHILE we were yet sinners, so I don't see Him taking a hike just because of one really bad decision.

Another thought is to consider how does a person FIRST come to Christ and repent? There must be some sort of "pre-Baptismal state" where the Spirit is not "indwelling" yet, but is still effective in some manner, calling a person to conversion and repentance.

Yes, I believe that is true as well, but I would say "pre-belief state". :)

5,843 posted on 09/10/2007 11:55:31 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5795 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper
In today's assigned reading for Morning Prayer we have 1 Jo 4:15: If anyone confesses/acknowledged/homologese that Jesus is the son of God, God abides/dwells/ menei (and that verb is BIG in John' stuff) in him and he in God.

Just thought I'd toss that into the blender. Note that it has that mutual indwelling stuff that Cranmer put in the Eucharistic prayer.

5,849 posted on 09/11/2007 3:48:18 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5843 | View Replies ]

To: Forest Keeper
I don't see it that way given that the Spirit is a permanent seal, and we have all the verses telling us that God will not lose any of His sheep and that He will never forsake His children. He loved us WHILE we were yet sinners, so I don't see Him taking a hike just because of one really bad decision.

We have already discussed this. None of that guarantees the individual heaven, at least from our point of view. A sealed person can lose their inheritance, as Paul writes to Galatians, Hebrews, and the Corinthians. God won't forsake His children, but WE can forsake Him, as Paul writes to Timothy and the above communities. He loved us while we were yet sinners, and continues to love us. While not a dogmatic teaching, many believe that God loves even those in hell. So God's Love doesn't necessarily mean a person is free from hell. But some people do not reciprocate His love in the least. Those who do not obey God's will cannot enter into His presence. I do not think there is a clearer statement from the entire bible...

The Scriptures seems to indicate that God hands over to His wrath those who refuse God and His will. Even Jews. Thus, Paul tells Christians to beware that they do not falter, as well. Persevering in Christ is a predominant theme in the NT. I do not think it is to be taken so lightly.

Regards

5,861 posted on 09/11/2007 5:54:57 AM PDT by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5843 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson