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To: MarkBsnr; irishtenor
I’d say that you’re ducking the question!!!

OH, BAAAAH!!! :) How so?

A robot slave doesn’t realize that he is a robot slave simply because he’s programmed not to.

Not true in Christianity. While the lost do not understand their plight, the saved are told plainly in scripture that we were bought at a price and are now slaves to righteousness. To the extent humans can comprehend, I think I have a fairly solid understanding of where I stand with God in the grand order of things. I am His slave and very grateful for it. :)

I still don’t get what God gets out of it either - if his goal is to create us the greatest of His creations and to have us willingly worship Him, then this predestination control would seem to preclude any willing worship.

Well, I would put this in the same category as wondering why God bothers to get out of bed in the morning because He already knows every detail of every occurrence for that day. The answer is that we just can't understand it. What could be interesting about the existence of an omniscient being? I don't know! :) He tells us that He wants us to worship Him, even though He knows already how much He'll ever get. Nevertheless, regardless of the cause, I am motivated to worship Him and believe He approves when I do. It's real for me. What else can I do? The only difference I can see is who gets the glory for my worship: God, or my free will.

5,808 posted on 09/10/2007 10:35:58 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

Isn’t the only self identified slave St. Paul? I think that he was only trying to make a point that he put himself on the level of the slave; he humbled himself in his own imitation of Christ.

A slave does not have free will; only a servant does. Do the rest of the Apostles identify themselves as slaves? No; as servants - servants with a free will who can leave the employ of their Master at will.

The only difference is that with our Master, we can not only reject Him, He is waiting there with his saving graces extended. The example of the prodigal son has no meaning under Reformed theology except as a mechanical exercise - rather like praying, either for the son who wandered or for the joy that the father felt upon his return. Life and death and eternal destinations are merely static, preordained, and inevitable.

If man is made in God’s image, then why would he throw the bulk of humanity away? I understand about the clay, but men are not pots, they are the pinnacle of His creation.


5,818 posted on 09/10/2007 5:40:44 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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