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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; hosepipe; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; suzyjaruki; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; xzins; ..
Here's an interesting article I read for the intriguing title...

PREACHING HELL IN A TOLERANT AGE
Brimstone for the broad-minded.

But I ended up by understanding something pertinent to this discussion of hell -- Christ suffered the actual torments of hell for His flock. Were those torments real, or just a "spiritual separation from God?"

Scripture shows us clearly that Christ suffered the agony of hell on the cross for us. He gave us a clear portrait of what hell is, promising that we wouldn't have to suffer like He did because He suffered for us, so that we could stand acquitted of our sins before God.

"And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him." -- Matthew 27:30-31

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." -- Hebrews 12:2

If our hell is merely a psychic malaise, then so was Christ's separation from God. But He showed us clearly that it wasn't -- it was objective and real and devastating.

5,738 posted on 09/08/2007 11:04:39 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr; hosepipe; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; suzyjaruki; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; ...
If our hell is merely a psychic malaise, then so was Christ's separation from God. But He showed us clearly that it wasn't -- it was objective and real and devastating

I never said it wasn't real. You are making things up as you go along. You are putting words in my mouth that I never siad. That's fraud.

Peter Chopelas writes in an article reviewed by Orthodox Church officials in America

Note here that God is present but He is experienced by the soul as absent. This experience (state) of God's absence is hell. Ergo, God is, by definition, not present in hell to the soul which is in (a state of) hell.

he than contrasts this with the traditional Western view (since then the Catholics have moved closer to the Patristic view of the 1st millennium):

The Orthodox understanding of heaven and hell is our state of existence in the presence of God. His love is either experienced as joy in those who love Him and burning in those who hate Him.

This is not a new concept

He then goes into very detailed analysis of different words used for hell in both Greek and Hebrew

The article is rather long, going into ancient concepts of afterlife, etc. so I will stop here. I have no problem with your mistaken interpretations. That will be your burden when you answer for your deeds. That you rejected the Church despite the fact that it was given to you on many on occasion is something you will have to explain, for as the Bible says "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."—Mat 12:37

5,747 posted on 09/08/2007 12:07:24 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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