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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; hosepipe
Sure, but what good does it do? Apparently, one needs a priest to actually get forgiveness because that is how the Church set up the rules for itself

The priest absolves you (binds on earth and it is bound in heaven) because you ask him to as part of the confession. The priest approves your request knowing God shall approve it provided your confession is true, and provided the priest's intentions are true.

if one is delinquent in making confession, he is not even supposed to take communion. If true, that sounds pretty forced to me

Confession is repentance, FK. If you repent, you are forgiven. Should you receive Christ without repentance?

The Bible does tell us to confess to others, but for the sins we have committed against them

Sins committed against God or others are still sin against God.

I have no issue with confessing all sins to another person if one is so moved, but confessing directly to God is taking a shortcut?

Where does it say in the Bible we should confess sins (only) directly to God? Confession to God is no effort, no fruit of repentance, because he already knows your sins. You don't have to tell Him anything! But if you are really sorry and you tell someone else about how wrong you were, that's an honest desire to "get it off your chest" and repent.  That's why the Lord says that loving those who love you is no effort. The real challenge is loving those who hate you. Likewise, confessing to Him who knows your sins is no effort.

Doesn't this go against everything we teach our children? If your child has wronged someone and wants to apologize face to face do you tell her to instead tell a friend to pass along the message?

There you go with your children examples again. It's not the same, FK. God already knows. It's no effort 'fessing up to God. Loving those who love you is no accomplishment.

I'm not arguing that it isn't a conditional statement, it is. I'm saying it's not an offer. When I tell my son "If it snows tonight, then you will be shoveling in the morning", I am not making him an offer, I am stating a matter of fact because I have the authority to do so

More children examples...okay, it is not an offer if you say "if the earth is hit by a comet tomorrow, you don't have to go to work." But if God makes a promise to someone, "If you do this, I will raise you" it is a promisary conditional offer.

5,716 posted on 09/07/2007 10:28:39 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; hosepipe
The priest absolves you (binds on earth and it is bound in heaven) because you ask him to as part of the confession. The priest approves your request knowing God shall approve it provided your confession is true, and provided the priest's intentions are true.

I am sure you have heard many on my side frequently speak of our having a "personal relationship" with Christ. Every other week my pastor emphasizes that such a personal relationship is really what Christianity is. I have gathered that the Church strongly disagrees with this idea, given that the laity are taught to first go through priests or saints for contact with (or action by) God. Do the priests themselves believe they have a personal relationship with God? Is the personal relationship you have heard us speak of more properly between the laity and the Church?

Confession is repentance, FK. If you repent, you are forgiven. Should you receive Christ without repentance?

I suppose under your beliefs, probably not. :) I have already repented, received Christ, and been forgiven. Since Christ will never leave me, I only needed to receive Him once.

Where does it say in the Bible we should confess sins (only) directly to God?

Logic would tell us to confess our sins to those who can forgive us. On a spiritual level, that is only God. I listed some scripture in 5785.

Confession to God is no effort, no fruit of repentance, because he already knows your sins. You don't have to tell Him anything!

Then you're not doing it right! :) While I am typing this to you, and hopefully not sinning depending on the words I choose :), I can intellectually know for certain that God knows everything I do and all that. Do you think that is what is going through my mind when I DO sin? No way. But when I confess directly to God, THEN I've got a problem because lying gets me nowhere. We can fool a priest, but there's no fooling God. By admitting to God I am also admitting to myself. Believe me, a true confession directly to God many times takes a lot of effort, at least for me. :)

FK: "Doesn't this go against everything we teach our children? If your child has wronged someone and wants to apologize face to face do you tell her to instead tell a friend to pass along the message?"

There you go with your children examples again. It's not the same, FK. God already knows. It's no effort 'fessing up to God.

The Bible is PACKED with children examples. What's wrong with them? :)

Loving those who love you is no accomplishment.

If you are referring to verses like Matt. 5:46, I'm not sure how it applies here. Do you not love your priest? Does he not love you? Do you really think the point of the Matthew verse was that loving those who love you is worthless? Or, was it perhaps motivational to get people to understand that we are to love everyone, including our enemies? I mean, Christ loved us first, right?

... okay, it is not an offer if you say "if the earth is hit by a comet tomorrow, you don't have to go to work." But if God makes a promise to someone, "If you do this, I will raise you" it is a promissory conditional offer.

It certainly "can" be taken that way, but that would have God bargaining at arm's length with humans. Does the God that you understand need to make deals? Or, does He use language like that in order to teach in terms we can understand? I think the latter.

5,792 posted on 09/10/2007 3:16:07 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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