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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; suzyjaruki; blue-duncan; irishtenor; Alamo-Girl
"Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." -- Psalm 139:7-8

KOSTA: Christian God does not "reside" in Hell.

You have clear, Scriptural evidence that God is everywhere and yet you deny it. God "resides" in heaven, but God is omnipresent. He's everywhere.

Nowhere in the New Testament are those verses from Psalm 139 superseded, abrogated or erased.

Where is your evidence that Psalm 139 is no longer in effect? Where is your evidence that there are places in His creation where God refuses to or is unable to be present?

Perhaps this misunderstanding of Scripture is what leads you to your incorrect perspective that God is not in control of all His creation, even Satan.

5,638 posted on 09/07/2007 10:02:10 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; suzyjaruki; blue-duncan; irishtenor; Alamo-Girl
You have clear, Scriptural evidence that God is everywhere and yet you deny it. God "resides" in heaven, but God is omnipresent. He's everywhere

To Christians, Hell is not a "place" but an eternal spiritual state of separation from God. God does not exists in spiritual separation from Himself.

Sheol (Hebrew underworld) cannot be an equivalent of Christian concept of Hell because it was a "place" where the souls of the righteous as well as the unrighteous "went" after physical death (analogous to the Hades or the unseen of the ancient Greeks).

Wikipedia mentions that, consistent with the messianic movement the concept of Sheol changes from the original Judaic concept to a newly revealed one.

This "intermediate state" (incorporated by the early Church directly from messianic Judaism) is reflected in Eastern Orthodox (and Catholic) teaching that those who die are immediately judged and are waiting for the Final Judgment (reunion with new bodies) and final disposition of the resurrected to either eternal communion with, or separation from, God. But the Christian concept does not equate hell with a "place."

When I say the "state" of a soul I mean how a soul experiences God's presence. Either we are in communion with Him or we feel separated from Him. That separation is like knowing that God is next door but the doors to where He is are shut permanently. This is the Eastern Orthodox teaching and not my opinion, in case you wondered.

Catholic Catechism states:

Pope John Paul II stated "Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy."

Sheol and Hades simply meant grave, a place for the righteous and the unrighteous equally, that none could escape. It does not infer anything about the state of one's soul with respect to God. But the soul can either be in His presence or without it.

But, hey, if the Protestants believe in fairy-tale "places," that's what they believe! I can only offer what the Church always taught and not what some men invented 1,500 years later.

One thing is certain: Sheol and Hell and not one and the same concept. And your KJV makes no distinction between them. Just another proof how terribly misleading KJV is.

5,728 posted on 09/08/2007 7:57:38 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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