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To: irishtenor
I'm really just going for clarification here. Predestination, election, and free will are matters too high for my increasingly feeble mind.

But do I understand you to say that the freedom God gives in Christ does not mean a freedom to reject God, but one can on a case by case basis, so to speak, reject His instructions as to this or that moral decision?

Just spekkerlatin' here, with two examples:
(1) In the sheriff's office where I worked, if we were not in a building, a vehicle, or a fight, we were ALWAYS to have our Smokey Bear hats on. ALWAYS. You get out of your car and walk 5 steps to a door, you get out, put on your hat, walk five steps, open the door, walk in, take your hat off (and stand around awkwardly with this big ol' hat in your hand).

Some of the deputies who had been there longer than the Sheriff would NOT do this if the sheriff was out of town. But they didn't want to quit being deputies.
OR
(2) Sometimes as teenagers we "hate" our parents for a while. But we still love them, we've just kind of lost sight of that for a while ...

Is it kind of like one or both of those?

5,613 posted on 09/07/2007 5:38:15 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

***But do I understand you to say that the freedom God gives in Christ does not mean a freedom to reject God, but one can on a case by case basis, so to speak, reject His instructions as to this or that moral decision?***

Once a person has been claimed by God, he cannot lose salvation. It is not his to lose. Jesus bought our salvation, so he owns it, not us. We can, and do, reject his instruction on a daily basis (its called sin:>) but that in not way cancels our salvation. Jesus died for ALL our sins. The ones we did, the ones we do, and the ones we will do. Jesus paid it all. We still are bothered by the sin nature, as we are still in the flesh. Paul puts it like this in Romans 7.

Romans 7:15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me


5,704 posted on 09/07/2007 7:09:39 PM PDT by irishtenor (There is no "I" in team, but there are two in IDIOT.)
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To: Mad Dawg

(2) Sometimes as teenagers we “hate” our parents for a while. But we still love them, we’ve just kind of lost sight of that for a while ...

And sometimes we have to punish our children, but that in no way diminishes our love for them :>)


5,705 posted on 09/07/2007 7:11:19 PM PDT by irishtenor (There is no "I" in team, but there are two in IDIOT.)
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