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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; D-fendr; Forest Keeper; xzins; irishtenor; wmfights; P-Marlowe; ...

“Those who have cash can show it. You can only talk about it.”

This is a passage from Pilgrim’s Progress where Dr. E. in speaking to Talkative demonstrates that her life is more than talk as can be supported by many of us who have had the privilege of watching her and learning from her over the years.

A work of Grace in the soul discovereth itself, either to him that hath it, or to standers-by.

To him that hath it thus:

It gives him conviction of sin, especially of the defilement of his nature and the sin of unbelief (for the sake of which he is sure to be damned, if he findeth not mercy at God’s hand by faith in Jesus Christ) John 16:8, Romans 7:24, John 16:9, Mark 16:16.

This sight and sense of things worketh in him sorrow and shame for sin; he findeth moreover revealed in him the Saviour of the world, and the absolute necessity of closing with him for life, at the which he findeth hungrings and thirstings after him, to which hungrings, etc. the promise is made Psalm 38:18, Jer. 31:19, Gal. 2:16, Acts 4:12, Matt. 5:6, Rev. 21:6.

Now according to the strength or weakness of his Faith in his Saviour, so is his joy and peace, so is his love to holiness, so are his desires to know him more, and also to serve him in this World. But though I say it discovereth itself thus unto him, yet it is but seldom that he is able to conclude that this is a work of Grace; because his corruptions now, and his abused reason, make his mind to misjudge in this matter; therefore in him that hath this work, there is required a very sound Judgment before he can with steadiness conclude that this is a work of Grace.

To others it is thus discovered:

1. By an experimental confession of his Faith in Christ. (Romans 10:10, Phil. 1:27, Matt. 5:19)

2. By a life answerable to that confession, to wit, a life of holiness, heart-holiness, family-holiness, (if he hath a Family) and by conversation-holiness, in the World; which in the general teacheth him, inwardly to abhor his sin, and himself for that in secret, to suppress it in his Family, and to promote holiness in the World; not by talk only, as an hypocrite or talkative person may do, but by a practical subjection, in Faith and Love, to the power of the Word: (John 14:15, Psalm 50:23, Job 43:5-6, Exek. 20:43).


5,247 posted on 09/03/2007 6:50:19 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; D-fendr; Forest Keeper; xzins; irishtenor; wmfights; P-Marlowe
It's still talk. Imagine going to a doctor and all he does is talk about you getting better. Next time you get sick, don't go to a doctor. We all know science is but "exponential conjecture," to quote Dr. E. besides, God decides what happens regardless of what we do. So, going to a doctor is pointless. Right?

What happens to you internally, what you believe, is no proof of anything except perhaps to you. And one can be deceived. As P-Marlowe once said "you have nothin'."

5,249 posted on 09/03/2007 7:03:09 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: blue-duncan; Forest Keeper; wmfights; P-Marlowe; irishtenor; Alamo-Girl; xzins
Thank you for that exquisite excerpt from "Pilgrim's Progress" by John Bunyon. I remember having to read it in 8th grade, and not getting much out of it. Amazing what a little mileage can do for the brain. 8~)

Well worth repeating...

A work of Grace in the soul discovereth itself, either to him that hath it, or to standers-by.

To him that hath it thus:

It gives him conviction of sin, especially of the defilement of his nature and the sin of unbelief (for the sake of which he is sure to be damned, if he findeth not mercy at God's hand by faith in Jesus Christ) John 16:8, Romans 7:24, John 16:9, Mark 16:16.

This sight and sense of things worketh in him sorrow and shame for sin; he findeth moreover revealed in him the Saviour of the world, and the absolute necessity of closing with him for life, at the which he findeth hungrings and thirstings after him, to which hungrings, etc. the promise is made Psalm 38:18, Jer. 31:19, Gal. 2:16, Acts 4:12, Matt. 5:6, Rev. 21:6.

Now according to the strength or weakness of his Faith in his Saviour, so is his joy and peace, so is his love to holiness, so are his desires to know him more, and also to serve him in this World. But though I say it discovereth itself thus unto him, yet it is but seldom that he is able to conclude that this is a work of Grace; because his corruptions now, and his abused reason, make his mind to misjudge in this matter; therefore in him that hath this work, there is required a very sound Judgment before he can with steadiness conclude that this is a work of Grace.

To others it is thus discovered:

1. By an experimental confession of his Faith in Christ. (Romans 10:10, Phil. 1:27, Matt. 5:19)

2. By a life answerable to that confession, to wit, a life of holiness, heart-holiness, family-holiness, (if he hath a Family) and by conversation-holiness, in the World; which in the general teacheth him, inwardly to abhor his sin, and himself for that in secret, to suppress it in his Family, and to promote holiness in the World; not by talk only, as an hypocrite or talkative person may do, but by a practical subjection, in Faith and Love, to the power of the Word: (John 14:15, Psalm 50:23, Job 43:5-6, Exek. 20:43).

"A work of grace" is "discovered" by men, not created by men, either within them or within another.

"Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD." -- Isaiah 65:14-25

"...before they call, I will answer..."

5,282 posted on 09/03/2007 11:44:43 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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