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To: MarkBsnr; irishtenor; kosta50
I believe that it was FK (pray correct me if I am wrong) that identified that God may lie to us for His purposes.

That doesn't ring any bells as something I would say. :) And, from my readings of all the other posts, I can't think of anyone who has said that. Is this a paraphrase of something I said?

It departs from the Gospels and from much of the Bible, though, to discard the greatest of His creations - man - to roast in hellfire forever for His pleasure.

The Bible says that those who do not believe go to hell. That is God's justice, and those people get what they want. God's pleasure is to keep His justice pure. The alternative would be for Him to violate His own nature. It will never happen. It is inapplicable for anyone to suggest that anyone around here thinks that God somehow derives "jollies" when people go to hell.

5,210 posted on 09/02/2007 3:18:39 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
The Bible says that those who do not believe go to hell.

There are other opinions:

Lo, the poor Indian! whose untutor'd mind
Sees God in clouds, or hears him in the wind;
His soul proud Science never taught to stray
Far as the solar walk or milky way;
Yet simple Nature to his hope has giv'n,
Behind the cloud-topp'd hill, a humbler heav'n;
Some safer world in depth of woods embrac'd,
Some happier island in the wat'ry waste,
Where slaves once more their native land behold,
No fiends torment, no Christians thirst for gold!
To be, contents his natural desire;
He asks no angel's wing, no seraph's fire:
But thinks, admitted to that equal sky,
His faithful dog shall bear him company.

Alexander Pope, Essay on Man


5,211 posted on 09/02/2007 3:35:39 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; irishtenor
Mark: It departs from the Gospels and from much of the Bible, though, to discard the greatest of His creations - man - to roast in hellfire forever for His pleasure.

FK: The Bible says that those who do not believe go to hell. That is God's justice, and those people get what they want

FK, you keep using circular logic. Those who don't believe don't believe because God didn't give them the faith according to your (Reformed) theology. So, why, then, are they "condemned" for the lack of faith?

According to your theology, before foundation of the world, God decided He would make a multitude of people of which certain portion will be saved and the rest discarded and sentenced to eternal suffering. That's not the God of the Gospels.

5,231 posted on 09/02/2007 10:10:24 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper

There were some examples brought up of God misleading man in the OT. I apologize for mistakenly applying them to you.

It is interesting that some will display the verses that say that the reward for belief is Heaven. Others will display the verses that say that the elect only will get to Heaven. Others will display the verses that say that Jesus came for all men. Does that mean that the elect only have belief and all others disbelieve?

Could this mean that the vast bulk of humanity might be able to get to Heaven?


5,383 posted on 09/04/2007 7:28:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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