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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; xzins; MarkBsnr; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; Cronos; Petronski; D-fendr; ...
In fact, Matt. 3:16 says "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. ...". This would make no sense if He went up and down three times first.

Scripture as always is the best guide.

The didache also has a great deal of flexibility in it concerning Baptism. Cold water, warm water, running water (streams, rivers) or still water. Our only infallible source on Earth today, SCRIPTURE does not establish that a strict ritual has been established that can only be done in a certain way. The establishmentarianism followed the institutionalization of Christianity.

I believe the dictates for Baptism are repent first and then be baptized. The key being repentance.

5,058 posted on 08/31/2007 12:21:02 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights; Forest Keeper; Cronos; xzins; MarkBsnr; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; Petronski; D-fendr; ...
Our only infallible source on Earth today, SCRIPTURE does not establish that a strict ritual has been established that can only be done in a certain way

Protestants never cease to amaze me. They will, just as Luther did from faulty Textus Receptus, derive "absolute" truth from faulty translations. Not only that: they will also deny Greeks the expertise of their own language!

FK, you give me Strong's translation. And I am using Greek sources, and even Protestant sources. perhaps you overlooked the first and most accurate definition of the word baptizo: to dip repeatedly .

Here is a page from the Blue Letter Bible

ßapt???  

Transliteration

baptizo

Pronunciation

bäp-te'-zo (Key)

Part of Speech

verb

Root Word (Etymology)

from a derivative of G911

TDNT Reference

Vines

Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

3) to overwhelm

"

Note on Baptism in Ac. Baptism in water (such as John's) is distinguished from baptism with the Holy Spirit (i. 5, etc.). Those who receive the latter, however, may also be baptized in water (cf. xi. 16 with x. 47); and there is one example of people who had previously received John's baptism receiving Christian baptism as a preliminary to receiving the Spirit (xix. 3 ff.).

John's was a baptism of repentance (xiii. 24; xix. 4), as was also Christian baptism (ii. 38), but as John's pointed forward to Jesus (xix. 4), it became obsolete when He came. Christian baptism followed faith in the Lord Jesus (xvi. 31 ff.); it was associated with His name (ii. 38; viii. 16, etc.), which was invoked by the person baptized (xxii. 16); it signified the remission (ii. 38) or washing away of sins (xxii. 16); sometimes it preceded (ii. 38; viii. 15 ff.; xix. 5), sometimes followed (x. 47 f.) the receiving of the Spirit." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 98, n. 1.)

This word should not be confused with baptô (911). The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution.

Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.

The emphases are mine. Note that the term baptizô is used exlcusively as the sacrament of Baptism, never for anything else.

The Fathers of the Church used it it not only because they didn't want it to be confused with baptô but also because it meant multiple dips and, even more importantly, because the word accurately suggests to a Greek speaker that the change is permanent.  There is no second Bpatism for that reason.

That is the reason Anabaptists are heretics.  That's why the Creed says "I believe in one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins."

 

Now, you are absolutely right that the number of dips is not mentioned in the Bible, but the Fathers derived it from the New Testament just as they derived the concept of Holy Trinity.

 
Since it means multiple dips, what number is meaningful and symbolic at the same time? First there is the Holy Trinity into which we baptize, each person separately, so it makes sense to dip for each Divine Hypostasis (the way we make the sign of the cross, when calling on God, each Divine Person individually).

Second, Christ was dead for three days, and when we are baptized we die unto ourselves and are "buried" and each dip can represent one day of death before resurrection. Other numbers simply make no sense from the spiritual point of view.

 

Hopefully this will show you that what the Church does has a deeper meaning that is often hidden or lost in translations, and that summary dismissals of these is borne out of ignorance and an idolatrous relationship with the English Bible in particular as an inerrant, perfect translation and a literal word of God.



5,073 posted on 08/31/2007 3:02:08 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: wmfights
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!
5,092 posted on 08/31/2007 8:45:49 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wmfights
I believe the dictates for Baptism are repent first and then be baptized. The key being repentance.

Absolutely. And I was trying to figure the relationship between belief and repentance, and it seems clear that one necessarily forces the other. Neither can exist alone.

5,243 posted on 09/03/2007 3:41:08 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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