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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; P-Marlowe
I was trying to confirm whether or not God gives equally to all for salvation in your view. If He does, then it certainly appears that He does not give all of us much

The standard answer is that God gives to each what He knows they are capable of (the talents). The failure to realize the talents given is to our condemnation because we are to give to others what was freely given to us and because we must not love the world. We cannot serve two masters, and money is the source of all evil.

That's why it will be harder for the rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle (which is a mistranslation, by the way).

If you make $500K a year, have no kids, or debt, a $50 ticket you get for illegal parking is pocket change. But if you make $25K a year, have four kids and mortgage and credit card payments, a $50 ticket is a big deal. In order for the fine to be "just" the rich man needs to pay more. Otherwise the punishment is unequal and unequal punishment is unequal justice.

So, when God gives 'equally' to everyone, it is "equal" in the just way, affecting each equally, not quantity-wise.

5,038 posted on 08/31/2007 7:10:50 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
In order for the fine to be "just" the rich man needs to pay more.

This is simply not true. The penalty for sin is the same for the rich and the poor. Is that just?

5,042 posted on 08/31/2007 8:58:10 AM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; P-Marlowe; Seven_0; blue-duncan
FK: "I was trying to confirm whether or not God gives equally to all for salvation in your view."

The standard answer is that God gives to each what He knows they are capable of (the talents). The failure to realize the talents given is to our condemnation because we are to give to others what was freely given to us and because we must not love the world. We cannot serve two masters, and money is the source of all evil. That's why it will be harder for the rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle (which is a mistranslation, by the way). (emphasis added)

Then I'm afraid I do not understand the standard answer. I could follow the reasoning if you said that God gave in equal portions to everyone because God doesn't play favorites. However, it seems to me you are making a proportion argument, that God gives to everyone based on some sort of criteria, you said what "they are capable of". (What does that mean, BTW? :)

[This idea is bolstered by your final statement: "So, when God gives 'equally' to everyone, it is "equal" in the just way, affecting each equally, not quantity-wise."]

Anyway, this fails if we also say that rich men are less likely to go to Heaven because according to you, God would have compensated for their wealth-seeking propensities in order to be proportional with everyone else. Isn't that right? IOW, if the standard answer was correct, and God was truly proportional in distributing His grace to everyone based on what they could handle, THEN we should expect to see as many rich men in Heaven as from any other type of demographic.

Of course I'm assuming that your meaning is that those in the greater need can "handle" more grace. (?) Please correct me if I am wrong, but that would seem to be the only interpretation if everyone has a fair shot at getting into Heaven.

In order for the fine to be "just" the rich man needs to pay more. Otherwise the punishment is unequal and unequal punishment is unequal justice.

Not surprisingly, I agree with Seven that this isn't Biblical. The punishment for sin is the same for all. PLUS, you are arguing for a progressive criminal justice system. Is that REALLY what you would like to see??? :) Under your system, the transient who commits murder would get a much lighter sentence because his time and liberty would be considered "worth less" than the same time and liberty to an honest, hardworking taxpayer with a family. Is that your idea of justice?

You simply CANNOT means-test criminal law. The result would be that those with the least would be encouraged to commit the most crime because the penalties would be less. I don't think they need any more incentive. :) That is squarely against public policy and is partly why that is not our system now.

5,238 posted on 09/03/2007 2:05:56 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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