Replies

me: Knowing Christ is the only proof a person will ever need

you: Personally, yes, but that's not a "proof." It's a conviction based on experience, and we know that personal experience can be a fallacy. Appealing to "inner reality" as outer proof is like confusing dreams with wakefulness. It borders on pathology, even psychosis.

If a conviction is all a person has, then he is not yet filled by the Holy Spirit and therefore, does not yet know Christ. It takes time:

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. – 2 Peter 1:5-8

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. – Phl 2:12

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. – Galatians 1:15-19

Moreover, spiritual reality is eternal whereas physical reality is not. It is not a “pathology” or “psychosis” to be more alive in the spiritual realm than the physical realm – it is what happens when we trust Him and follow Him:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. – Matthew 24:35

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. – Galatians 2:20

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit... For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his... – excerpts from Romans 8

Your excerpting of my post bled into your reply. Here it is more clearly:

me: It is God's will that His words be sown (parable of the sower.) It is not His will to satisfy the demand for signs or wisdom (reason)- both of which are "proofs"

you: Funny that +Paul should re-write the history of God, who used signs and miracles to convince people He was really God!

Do you not realize that God could have made everything perfect from the beginning? That the new heaven and new earth could be this one?

Do you not realize that Jesus Christ could have healed everyone at once, raised all of the dead, revealed Himself in power and glory and set up the new heaven and new earth at that time?

Do you not realize that God could have taken the Hebrews directly from Egypt to the Promised Land without stopping at the Red Sea?

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. – Matthew 3:9

There is no creature – whether spiritual or physical – who can deny Him when He appears in power and glory – and that includes all of us who have come to know Him. We will not - indeed we cannot - refrain from praising Him!

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; - Phl 2:10

And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. – Luke 19:40

Everything has been unfolding from the beginning according to God’s will. The Final Cause is the new family Christ establishes in the new heaven and the new earth. (last two chapters of Revelation)

Signs and miracles of God are punctuated throughout history – but how many miss the miracle of Creation itself – both spiritual and physical - as a sign of God!

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. – Psalms 19:1-3

Sadly, men only consider as “signs” those things which are not ordinary to their own perceptions and reasoning.

As to why God has not yet “wrapped it all up.”

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. – 2 Peter 3:9

You continued:

It so easy to just cut out that part with which you disagree and find verses that support your view. Anyone can do that. It's self-serving, A-G, and that's why text-proofing is no proof at all. It all defaults to me-me-me, my experience, my inner knowledge, my reality...solipsism, self-worship, Gnosticism, maybe even worse.

Of a Truth, the power in any of my posts are not my words but the words of God which I quote.

Neverthless, if you are so greatly offended by my quoting the words of God, then ignore me – or ignore those parts of my posts.

If they were so convincing, then why did Israel reject Christ? If Peter's shadow could cure the sick, why would the Church fail in Israel. If the Church was to fail in Israel, why did Christ commission his disciples not to go to the Gentiles or Samaritans, but only tot he 12 tribes of Israel? Why does Paul tell the Jews that they were obliged to preach to them first but now, seeing that they didn't hear the word, the apostles will turn to the Gentiles? (no kidding, where else?) What was the purpose of preaching to the Jews knowing they would not buy into it?

So that seeing they would not see and hearing they would not hear and neither would they understand so that they would turn to God and He would heal them. This is God fulfilling His own words recorded in the Song of Moses:

They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. – Deuteronomy 32:21

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. – Romans 11:11

You continued:

me: Passers-by demanded proofs of Christ

you: That's because people believe God is in control! They were applying human logic to God! They were judging God by human standards of control and human justice. No one could imagine that God is gentle and humble. The Reformed don't believe it to this day. They expect a partial tyrant, benevolent to some, and damning to others.

Truly, those who deign to understand God by reasoning are anthropomorphizing Him and will end up imagining a small ‘god’ their puny minds can understand.

The book of Job stands as evidence – especially chapters 38 to the end when Job repents for speaking words without knowledge.

The only way one can know God is personally, by His revelation in the indwelling Spirit who reveals Jesus Christ, personally, to us.

You must be born again. There is no alternative.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. – John 3:6-7

Praise God!!!

Great post, A-G!!! Every word true and solidly founded on Scripture.

"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. – 2 Peter 1:5-8

AMEN! "For if these things be in you..."

This is Peter explaining the proof, the evidence of God's grace. "If we believe; if we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Savior; if our lives reflect the gift of God's glory; if our hearts have been reborn to His word; and most importantly of all as Paul told us, if He has indeed risen from the cross, then praise God, it is all true.

So who can actually believe that a man died and yet rose into heaven bodily? Who can accept this astounding impossibility as truth since there isn't really any rational evidence for this fact? None saw Him rise into glory. We have only the words of the Apostles and a few others who say they saw Christ after His death. How can we really believe this to be true if we didn't witness it ourselves?

Scripture tells us we believe by the supernatural gift of God to rebirth us and to open our eyes and ears to the spiritual truth which isn't comprehended by logic or reasoning, but by faith alone.

And the really amazing part is that this faith itself is not illogical nor unreasonable. Why? Because since we have lived our lives according to this faith, we know firsthand the real and tangible effects of this faith -- our lives are happier; we endure hardships without despair; we are more productive and directed; our families are more secure; and most of all, our hearts are rightly turned from our own impoverished ego toward gratitude. Gratitude for God's grace, protection, abiding care and confidence in our future with Him in glory. Gratitude, the glue that holds our lives together and rightly aligns our hearts to Him.

Now perhaps someone like Kosta would say some potent illegal drug could give us this same confident high. To which I would reply that no drug, no other belief, no man nor other god on the face of the earth can give what Christianity gives --

"And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." -- Philippians 4:7

So there comes a point when our faculties are not equipped to prove it all true, even as Kosta demands. That's when faith is given and we believe by the power of the Holy Spirit to change our doubts and fears into the peace of God.

Everything has been unfolding from the beginning according to God's will. The Final Cause is the new family Christ establishes in the new heaven and the new earth. (last two chapters of Revelation)

Amen! And what a relief to know this is true.

"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36.

The first clause in that verse is nearly as important as the second clause.

When Kosta says "No one could imagine that God is gentle and humble," he is only half right. Of course God is gentle, more gentle than the softest touch, more loving than any new mother, more generous than any proud father.

But why would God, the creator of heaven and earth and all things for all time, be "humble?" Who is He humbling Himself before?

Christ, His Son, humbled Himself to God by becoming a man and suffering for our sins so that believers would be saved. But that's the only "humility" contained in the Godhead. Christ was made shame for us; not by us. Do you presume that God humbles Himself before you, Kosta?

Maybe you do.

But that's not Biblically-correct. Every citation in Scripture speaking the word "humble" references men, not God.

"LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear" -- Psalm 10:17