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To: stfassisi; D-fendr
God made man in His image and “likeness” . That likeness is to “will” to love. What you just wrote makes God a lier.

Nonsense. God made Adam in His image. Adam made Cain in his image. It is pride and arrogances to think there is anything we have that can please God.

Since you brought up St. Irenaeus of Lyons

Please note the title. "Man is most ungrateful, if, unmindful of his own lot, and of the benefits held out to him, he do not acknowledge divine grace." Calvin nor I could have said it any better.
10,801 posted on 11/08/2007 5:31:01 PM PST by HarleyD (97% of all statistics are made up.)
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To: HarleyD

Dear Harley,
Glad you brought up Blessed Saint Irenaeus.

He says this from....

“Chapter XXXIX.—Man is endowed with the faculty of distinguishing good and evil; so that, without compulsion, he has the power, by his OWN WILL and CHOICE, to perform God’s commandments, by doing which he avoids the evils prepared for the rebellious.”

“”The light does never ENSLAVE any one by necessity; nor, again, does God exercise compulsion upon any one UNWILLING to accept the exercise of His skill. Those persons, therefore, who have apostatized from the light given by the Father, and transgressed the law of liberty, have done so through their OWN fault, since they have been created FREE agents, and possessed of power over themselves.””

Blessed Irenaeus would have branded Calvin a heretic by this statement alone.

Love does not force!

You’re hanging Calvin,and rightfully so, by using the early Chuech Fathers to try and support his un Christian views on free will.

Try praying for intercession of Blessed Saint Irenaues,rather than twisting what he really says..

I wish you peace of mind and a Blessed Evening!


10,809 posted on 11/08/2007 7:42:02 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: HarleyD

:::Man is most ungrateful, if...he do not acknowledge divine grace.:::

Harley, you’ve got to follow the sentence through.

The sentence states that man is most ungrateful IF he does not acknowledge divine grace. That says that man has a choice, which is nothing that Calvin ever claimed.


10,821 posted on 11/09/2007 6:54:57 AM PST by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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