[Kolokotronis]

“What the Orthodox reject is Christ paying the penalty for our sins which is the essences of the atonement.”

Not at all, HD. That is precisely what Christ did.

“What the Orthodox believe in is that Christ showed us the way in dying for all mankind and now we are able to imitate that behavior.

Orthodoxy never taught that, HD. You know that,

“Sorry, that was never the teachings of the western church fathers and I be willing to bet that it was never the teachings of the very early eastern church fathers.”

You’d win that bet assuming you found someone uneducated enough to take it. HD, Kosta’s post laid out clearly what Orthodoxy believes about atonement and certainly +John Chrysostomos’ Paschal Sermon states our belief in a most eloquent form.

” Kolo’s post #10,625: And actually quite a bit of “evidence” that Moses was in fact an Egyptian prince, a monotheist and no more a Jew than I am.

“This is a very weird statement considering the fact that Aaron, Moses’ brother was from the tribe of Levi.”

Oh, I don’t know. There’s a plethora of scholarly Jewish work which holds that Moses was an Monotheist Egyptian prince on the outs with the official pantheistic cult. Some of the more recent work was done by a former Chief Rabbi of Budapest who has lived here in America since 1956. There’s nothing “weird” about it, HD. Its a conclusion some have come to based on historical sources. I have to tell you that if those scholars are correct, it doesn’t change my faith one bit, no more in fact than understanding that a bat is not, in fact, a bird, as Leviticus 11:19 would have it.

“You should know by now we trace our heritage back to the early church fathers.”

How?

“In a way I do find it a bit disingenuous on how you will play nice to the Catholics while their around and then slam them with their western views.”

You think that’s disingenuous? HD, its my job to slam their Western, un-Orthodox innovative views. Orthodox lay people do that, especially to our own hierarchs, but we’ll do it to Catholic hierarchs, or the imposed beliefs of Catholic hierarchs, too, at the drop of a hat; its part of preparing them for what they’ll have to put up with after any reunion. I’m nice to you too. It doesn;t mean I won’t tell you where I think you’re wrong as you do with me. The Latins aren’t exactly shy, retiring theological wallflowers either, HD! :)

[HarleyD]

HD-“What the Orthodox reject is Christ paying the penalty for our sins which is the essences of the atonement.”

Kolo-Not at all, HD. That is precisely what Christ did.

I should have added "paying the penalty for our sins with His blood..."

You’d win that bet assuming you found someone uneducated enough to take it. HD, Kosta’s post laid out clearly what Orthodoxy believes about atonement and certainly +John Chrysostomos’ Paschal Sermon states our belief in a most eloquent form.

Quite frankly, Kolo, I'm not at all impress with the way the fathers are used here. I find things in them that are contrary to what is the doctrine of both the Orthodox and Catholic Church and the response I get is, "Well, that's not what the Church teaches."

This is a rather silly argument in my mind. Both the Orthodox and Catholic say they are inerrant in their doctrine based upon the fathers; yet they have two different and distinct doctrines. I would wager to say that if the Holy Spirit job is to guide people to all truth, then the Orthodox/Catholic position should be virtually the same given they are the "true" church. Given the fact that they are different should be an indication that they are not divinely inspired.

Tell me, do you believe in the Pope's infallibility? That is one of the Holy Spirit guiding "to all truth" for the Catholics. So who's right?

Oh, I don’t know. There’s a plethora of scholarly Jewish work which holds that Moses was an Monotheist Egyptian prince on the outs with the official pantheistic cult.

So, why should we care what some Jewish work holds no matter how many there are when we have the word of God before us?
Exd 2:1-2 And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took [to wife] a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived, and bare a son [Moses]: and when she saw him that he [was a] goodly [child], she hid him three months.

You accused M-L-G of holding heretical doctrine about Cain and here you are doing the very same thing with Moses. What's the difference?

How?

Please!!!

You think that’s disingenuous? HD, its my job to slam their Western, un-Orthodox innovative views.

Rarely do I see any "slamming" of Catholic/Orthodox positions although there are plenty of differences. Not that I mind.

It doesn;t mean I won’t tell you where I think you’re wrong as you do with me. The Latins aren’t exactly shy, retiring theological wallflowers either, HD!

So I've noticed. :O)