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To: Kolokotronis; HarleyD; kosta50; D-fendr
FK: “It would appear that God’s intention was to only relate to Greek speakers, and the rest of the world would be totally dependent on them to know God. ..."

Well, FK, there are a couple of ways to look at that. First is that that is exactly what God intended, or so it seems, given that the NT was written in Greek. The second is close to the first. What God intended was that people who are serious about Christianity would develop a language of theology and perhaps of worship which EXACTLY expressed what the Greek said. I pick #2.

So throughout the ages, the only ones who were serious about Christianity were the ones who knew Greek (or a related language as you describe) in conformity with the Orthodox faith? That is quite a statement! :) Of course that would mean that several Saints were "not serious about Christianity", including Saint Augustine. That's a pretty odd result. :) This would appear to also leave all Roman Catholics out in the cold, since you would not recognize Latin as a language of theology that expresses EXACTLY what the Greek does.

In addition, isn't it probably true that Jesus spoke (and presumably taught in) at least three languages? With Hebrew being the original language of revelation, I don't see any Divine exclusivity with the Greek. Careful translation is a must of course, but God knew how many of His children were going to grow up knowing the original Greek, i.e. not many as a total number. God either sufficiently accounted for that, or it was not His intention to reveal His word to all of His children. By your standards, it would clearly be true that the vast majority of believers do not have reasonable access to His word.

10,682 posted on 11/07/2007 1:39:28 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; kosta50; D-fendr

“So throughout the ages, the only ones who were serious about Christianity were the ones who knew Greek (or a related language as you describe) in conformity with the Orthodox faith?”

No, I’m just saying that that’s what the “Elect” would do if indeed that was God’s plan. Others, well, probably not.:)

“Of course that would mean that several Saints were “not serious about Christianity”, including Saint Augustine.”

Blessed Augustine’s writings were a complete disaster for Protestant Christianity in the West, in my opinion. They weren’t all that good for the Latins either, for that matter.

“This would appear to also leave all Roman Catholics out in the cold, since you would not recognize Latin as a language of theology that expresses EXACTLY what the Greek does.”

Well, no, though the Romans today fully recognize that Latin does not express Greek clearly. Filioque is an example of this. An even better example is the compound misunderstanding of the filioque by Protestants.

“In addition, isn’t it probably true that Jesus spoke (and presumably taught in) at least three languages? With Hebrew being the original language of revelation, I don’t see any Divine exclusivity with the Greek.”

I don’t know if there was any teaching in Hebrew, but Christ and likely at least some of the Apostles certainly knew it. No one would claim that Greek had any exclusivity to it, merely that it is in fact THE language of revelation in the NT, and frankly, for practical purposes until the Reformation, of the OT. Its the language God chose, FK, not English, not German, not Latin or French or Swedish.

“Careful translation is a must of course, but God knew how many of His children were going to grow up knowing the original Greek, i.e. not many as a total number. God either sufficiently accounted for that, or it was not His intention to reveal His word to all of His children. By your standards, it would clearly be true that the vast majority of believers do not have reasonable access to His word.”

Here’s the problem with your reasoning. Non-Greek/Aramaic/Syriac/Slavonic speakers will indeed have a problem with understanding the scriptures because in every single other language into which the NT has been translated, the translators had a particular theological or political axe to grind, not because God caused a problem but because men decided that they knew better what God meant in scripture than those men who spoke and lived the language it was written in. I think one could have translations of the NT in English, etc., which are faithful to the Greek original, but it won’t read like the high prose we enjoy in the KJV, for example, or the beautiful Latin of the Vulgate. Nothing other than pride and/or laziness has prevented the West from making proper translations of the NT. Everyone who wants to know The Truth of The Faith has access to God’s word. It may just be a bit more difficult for some than for others, but in all honesty, FK, in Calvin’s theology, the Elect don’t need that access and the damned are lost anyway. Looked at another way, the Elect will undoubtedly find a way to understand what the Greek really means. Interestingly, many evangelical or Reformed Protestant converts to Orthodoxy say that once they came to understand what the Greek of the NT was really saying, something they came to in no small measure by studying the Fathers and actually spending time in Orthodox communities, they saw clearly the errors of the West and knew that they had to embrace Orthodoxy.


10,683 posted on 11/07/2007 2:12:23 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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