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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; HarleyD
But what is really a nonsense is that every Protestant claims the "indwelling spirit" and believes something completely private and inadvertently different from others! Thus Osteen would surely say that what he teaches about hell is from the Holy Spirit as much as you would disagree with him claiming the same Holy Spirit as the interpreter.

Oh, I think Reformers are a pretty tight bunch. It still sounds like you think it is proper to lump all Protestants together as being under one roof, the way you are. Then you believe it is fair to apply your rules to that group that you made up. It really doesn't work that way.

I'm sure that Osteen would say he is led by the Holy Spirit, the same as I do, and the same as your saying that the Holy Spirit leads the consensus patrum, and other majorities in the cases of doctrines and disciplines. It's the same idea, isn't it, except that for you it's by a vote of a group. Why is it that any one person can be wrong, or incomplete in his understanding, but magically any group must be correct? That doesn't make sense. Proof is in all the heresies, followed by groups, that you have fought against. Plus, Latin groups (or the Pope) disagree with your groups. You believe that God only leads your groups in scriptural interpretation, and we believe that God leads all of His children in scriptural interpretation. Neither argument is inherently superior to the other outside of scripture, and of course we both have our own ideas on THAT. :)

Protestantism is unbiblical private interpretation of the scriptures. The New Testament prohibits it. It is an amateur adventure, FK. It promotes relativism.

Actually, isn't it Orthodoxy that employs a much higher level of mystery in its theology? In addition, Orthodoxy has a much much "looser" view of scriptures, AND it relies on the uninspired words of majority groups of fallible men for ultimate spiritual truth. I'd say it was your side that would be much more susceptible to relativism. :)

10,659 posted on 11/07/2007 3:35:26 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; HarleyD
Oh, I think Reformers are a pretty tight bunch. It still sounds like you think it is proper to lump all Protestants together as being under one roof, the way you are

Au contraire, FK, they are as loose as it gets and getting looser by the day...thousands of splinter groups. The fact that there is no one Protestant Church indicates that there is no one Protestant theology and that such relativistic groups cannot subscribe to an absolute truth or a single corherent theology, but is a loose aggregation of personal interpretations.

As I said, you and Osteen cannot be both guided by the same Spirit and be on opposite ends of hell.

I'm sure that Osteen would say he is led by the Holy Spirit, the same as I do, and the same as your saying that the Holy Spirit leads the consensus patrum

The Holy Spirit leads to consensus patrum, to one Church, FK, not to 33,000 denominations.

Actually, isn't it Orthodoxy that employs a much higher level of mystery in its theology?

What does mystery have to do with relativism? God IS mystery. Can you describe God accurately as He is? Or do you have to use allegorical language? The only way to describe God for us to be able to see Him and know Him in our terms is through Christ. That is a profound revelation. He is nothing like us. That's why Christ took on human nature, so that we can relate to Him through the prism of our limited senses and concepts, in human terms. Otherwise, relating to God is impossible without heretical anthropomorphism.

But, unlike Protestants, we believe in one thing, one Holy Apostolic Church, one Truth, One God, one Faith. Not thousands of relatively more-or-less "true" faiths or opinions...and for all the hype of differences between the Orthodox and Catholic, the two Churches are 99% in agreement (the 1% of disagreement is profound and didfficult for human mindsets to resolve), but it is safe to say that, all things considered, despite 1,000 years of separation and more, and cultural diversities, our Church has remaind almost untouched, and did not turn into 33,000 little "churches." That is a testimony of itself of the fact that Gates of Hell shall not overcome it.

10,665 posted on 11/07/2007 5:04:39 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper
It still sounds like you think it is proper to lump all Protestants together as being under one roof, the way you are.

In reality, the EOs and RCs don't "agree" on everything either, they have factions, fractures, disagreements, sects, etc as well.

They may agree on dogmatic doctrines, even though that isn't really true either, but Protestants also agree on "essential doctrines", which we also consider to be dogmatic doctrines which cannot be denied and be legitimately Christian.

So, the false claim of EOs and RCs that Protestants disagree on everything is a dishonest misrepresentation, an intellectual dishonesty that is common to EOs and RCs throughout the history of Christianity.

10,713 posted on 11/07/2007 5:25:06 PM PST by Missey_Lucy_Goosey
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