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To: Kolokotronis
“Wrong again.

The filioque proves it.”

Oh, I’d just love to hear your thoughts on this one! How about it, give us the Protestant read on the filioque innovation, especially its Patristic pedigree.

I'd already done that much earlier.

The Apostolic teaching of Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit is sent by both the Father AND the Son.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper(Paraclete), that He may abide with you forever—

John 14:26
But the Helper(Paraclete), the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

As I have stated earlier as well, Rome was clearly in violation of the canons of the Council of Nicea and Chalcedon that prohibited the alteration of the Nicene Creed when unilaterally inserting the filioque clause, and thus came under anathema as per those canons from Nicea and Chalcedon.

10,568 posted on 11/06/2007 5:25:58 PM PST by Missey_Lucy_Goosey
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To: Missey_Lucy_Goosey
MLS, Do you believe in the serpent seed idea-that Eve had intercourse with satan and produced cain?

Yes or no?

Please answer the question.

10,573 posted on 11/06/2007 5:33:14 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: Missey_Lucy_Goosey
MLG, do you know what "εκπορευόμενον," means? Here's a hint, it doesn't mean "procedit" What you are talking about is "through the Son" with the Greek word "Δια" meaning "as through a tube", the Son being a hollow conduit. That's Orthodox, but its not in the Creed because the Creed isn't talking about the sending of the HS by the Father but rather the origin of the HS in the Father. Filioque, sadly for you Westerners, had nothing to do with the perfectly proper "Δια" theology to which the Apostles spoke but rather, in an effort to deal with Arian claims about Christ, to an attempt to redesign the Trinity and abrogate the monarchy of The Father. Good intentions, bad theology...which Rome now recognizes.
10,578 posted on 11/06/2007 5:42:08 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Missey_Lucy_Goosey; Kolokotronis
The Apostolic teaching of Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit is sent by both the Father AND the Son

Two things, (1) changes to the Ecumenical Council's decisions cannot be made by local councils or patriarchates, but only by another Ecumenical Council. Chances are that would not happen except to expand on the truth already established by the previous Ecumenical Councils.

(2) The original word used in the Creed in Greek is not to "send." The Greek word implies the origin. The Latin word procedere used in the Creed does not.

Additional problems with filioque involve suggestion of double origin as expressed in the west. This violates the monarchy of the Father who is the cause of everything and all including divinity, and who is the only Hypostasis without cause.

Furthermore, the New testament is crystal clear that the Holy Spirit, Who proceeds (originates in Greek) from the Father is sent to the Son (likewise the Son seds Him back to the Father). But the Holy Spirit, a Lord, and Giver of Life, as regards His existence preceeds only from the Father. That is the baseline truth revealed to us about the eternal origin of the Spirit, just as the baseline truth about the origin of the Son is that the Word (Logos) is eternally begotten from the Father.

10,587 posted on 11/06/2007 5:59:39 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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