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To: HarleyD
“This is a comment that has come up a number of times and I’m puzzled by this. Do you believe man’s created purpose is to become like God the Son or like God the Father?”

The Fathers say that “God became man so that men might become God (or gods or like god)”. The only place I know where a distinction as to which Person of the Trinity is being talked about is made is in comments like that of +Gregory Palamas likening theosis to becoming a living icon of Christ, or +Symeon the New Theologian speaking of a Christian after death being examined “for some similitude to Christ” and about us having been raised by Christ’s grace to the status of sons of God which Christ is by nature. Virtually all of the other comments about theosis and “divinization” either say or point to Christians being what God is by grace and not by assimilation. To that extent I think what the Fathers are referring to is the Trinity, our Triune God.

“While there may be a case for them “lying down with each other” in a perfect world, they do not possess a soul.”

I certainly didn’t mean to imply that they do. Neither, for that matter, does “creation”, but it is taught that creation itself is and has been distorted by man’s sin. Romans 8:22, for example.

I am surprised you mentioned animals not having souls. Do you think the soul is immortal, HD?

10,334 posted on 11/02/2007 6:06:11 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; HarleyD
Kolo to HD: I am surprised you mentioned animals not having souls

It's a Calvinist thing, Kolo. They don't understand that "anima" is what animates, (quickens), that soul is life. Everything that lives has life (soul, spirit) in it. The Holy Spirit is the Giver of Life. That doesn't mean all souls are the same. Yet we don't know how God created animals. We only know how He created man.

10,337 posted on 11/02/2007 9:00:02 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Kolokotronis
The Fathers say that “God became man so that men might become God (or gods or like god)”.

This is the same thing that the Mormons teaches. I don't know anywhere in scripture that says we will become God. In fact, going back to the first sin the deception of the serpent was simply that we would become "as God". And Satan's fall was over the fact that he wanted to be like God. The tower of Babel was destroyed and the languages confused because of people wishing to be on par with God. I think there is evidence that this is the greatest sin; to think that we will be like God.

The Bible does say we will be "sons of God" in several places (e.g. Rom 8:19, Gal 3:36, etc) but I think it is a mistake to equate that to being like God the Father. I don't believe that is even equivalent to being the Son of God, as is our Lord Jesus, who has the name that is above all names and remains our High Priest. The scriptures clearly designated us as "sons of God", and there certainly are privileges and responsibilities with that title; but I believe its a grave mistake to assume we will be like God the Father. I'd certainly feel more comfortable using the "sons (small "s") of God" title that He has given us.

I am surprised you mentioned animals not having souls. Do you think the soul is immortal, HD?

Yes, the soul is immortal. Do I believe animals have souls? Off hand I would say I don't. I don't believe in the spirit of animals roaming around in heaven. Fuffy the kitten most likely will not be in heaven contrary to what a vast number of animal lovers would like to believe. But this is an area that I'm just not sure as I haven't studied this. I'm opened to being convince otherwise. It's not that I'm right or wrong; its simply that I don't know.

I did try to find a discussion of this topic but there seems to be scant writings on it, if any at all. So far I have come up empty handed.

10,338 posted on 11/03/2007 3:44:01 AM PDT by HarleyD
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