“However, the Divine Liturgy doe snot contain readings of the Apostolic, let alone Church Fathers, except that they are mentioned in or as homilies/commentaries.
You yourself know that the Church does not treat anything but the Gospels as Scripture per se and that only the Gospels sit on the altar. The rest of the scriputres (OT, Epistles) are located elswhere.”
Here’s what I wrote at 10216:
“But the writings of the Fathers are not considered scripture (they are about scripture) and aside from +John Chrysostomos’ Pascal Sermon, I don’t think any of the writings of the Fathers are read at the Divine Liturgy”.
“There are degrees of inspiration and they represent degrees of revelation.”
I don’t agree.
“Not all “inspired” text is treated equally.”
I agree completely.
Here is what Met. Maximos of Pittsburgh has to say about the Fathers and scripture:
“The Holy Bible, and more specifically the New Testament, does not contain all the doctrine and teachings of Christ. The Church, which has produced the Bible, does not completely submit itself to only one of the epiphenomena of its life, even if it is the most authoritative one, the Holy Scriptures. An important part of the teachings and doctrine of Christ continues to be present and handed down to the generations of Saints through other means and ways that are also part of the life of the Church, a life in the Holy Spirit. One of these ways and means through which Christ’s truth comes to us is the doctrine of the Holy Fathers of the Church.
The term Fathers, as we understand it, refers to great people of faith and sanctity of life, great teachers of Christ’s truth, staunch supporters of the Church and combatants of the enemies of Christian faith and truth (the “heretics”). These Fathers have always taught the faith in faithfulness and continuity with our Christian origins. On the one hand, they edified the faithful and were feeding the flock of Christ with the truth of the Gospel in its fuller meaning, which was handed down to them in the tradition of the Saints along with the Gospel. On the other hand, these same Fathers followed in the footsteps of the Apostles in opposing “the opponents of the faith” (Tit. 1:9; 1 Tim. 6:4-5; 2 Tim. 4:3-5). A “heretic” (from airoumai, choose) is someone who chooses his own doctrine against the doctrine of the Church, or someone who reduces the doctrine to only one of its aspects; thus heresy means reductionism. The Fathers always stood for the wholeness of truth (catholicity from “truth kata to olon,” in its entirety and wholeness).
Fathers combating the various heresies throughout the ages were the Apostolic Fathers, who followed the Apostles and fought especially against Arianism (St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory the Theologian, and St. Gregory of Nyssa); the fathers who fought against Nestorianism (St. Cyril of Alexandria), against Monophysitism and Monothelitism (St. Maximos the Confessor), and against Iconoclasm (St. Theodore of Studion, St. John of Damascus). In addition to the “Old Fathers” of the patristic tradition up the to end of the eighth century, our Holy Orthodox Church also acknowledges the so called “Recent Fathers” of the Byzantine era, among whom St. Gregory Palamas (14th century) has a preeminent place.
The Church depends on all these Fathers and the insights they have concerning the living faith of the Church, present in living continuity with the early Church in the life of the Church through the ages.”
Bottom line...the Bible is only part of the Holy Tradition of The Church, the most important part, but only a part, along with the writings of the Fathers, the Councils, the Creeds, the Canons, the Divine Liturgy, even our architecture and iconography.
This is not at all Western, Latin or Protestant. It is Orthodox. As I have said many times here, we believe differently from Western Christians.
Kolo: I don’t agree
Okay, then the OT is not a foreshadowing of Christ. I think the Church is clear that the revelation was gradual and that what was revealed was true but the puzzle didn't come together until Christ. At any time before that, the revealed Truth was known to various degrees.
The truth itself comes form God and it's absolute, but the amount revealed is gradual. More was revealed at different stages, and therefore the revelation was made in steps or degrees, each step revealing a bit more.
Here is what Met. Maximos of Pittsburgh has to say about the Fathers and scripture
They worked out what was revealed but they did not add or take away from it.
The Church depends on all these Fathers and the insights they have concerning the living faith of the Church, present in living continuity with the early Church in the life of the Church through the ages.”
But they do not reveal more truth than was revealed.
Bottom line...the Bible is only part of the Holy Tradition of The Church, the most important part, but only a part, along with the writings of the Fathers, the Councils, the Creeds, the Canons, the Divine Liturgy, even our architecture and iconography
Yes, the Church is a living, breathing organism. It is not just the faith but life in faith. It's a complex lifestyle and mindset. But fasting rules, for example are not it, although many treat them as such. They are man-made inventions, Kolo. So, not everything in the Church is this "inspired" immutable tradition handed from generation to generation. The gifts used to be brought in from outside when St. John Chrysostom wrote his homilies. Today, they are made next to the altar.
One of the biggest problems is separating what is human and what is divine. Unfortunately, the Church tends to treat everything as "divine." A lot of it is human. And even to this day, the typikons of Mt Athos (which the Serbian/Russian Church follows) is different from that used by the Greek Church, and this has been a problem for the Serbs as some of the priests educated in Greece use a different typikon.
And the calendar issue, which divided Orthodoxy and which has no signs of healing, is a human invention, and not divine. No doubt, the Church safeguards what was passed on from the Apostles to the Apostolic Fathers and Church Fathers all the way to us. But not everything that is seen and heard in the Church is inspired.
I don't know to what extent the Fathers were "inspired" and to what extent they were just good scholars or theologians.