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To: HarleyD

Never said Ho Hum or anything similar. I think that it is all very serious.

The Church is the Church, left to us by Jesus Christ in order to be His temporal body, and to teach, instruct, admonish and evangelize. Any departure from Church teachings must be viewed in the light of those teachings, and of Scripture. When I said before that I don’t get to define heresies, I really ought to have extended it to theology and doctrine as well.

“a sort of esoteric pseudo-knowledge or mysticism derived from personal, direct spiritual experiences which they took to be Divine revelation” refers to the Gnostics, by definition of the Church Fathers who fought against them almost right from the beginning. That definition is not of the Church.

Calvin, however smart or equipped with whatever other gifts, faults and tendencies that he was, is not and never will be a Church Father. He developed yet another theology based upon personal preferences. One of many thousands in that loose collection known as Protestantism. Check with Scripture; that’s a good thing. Just remember that private interpretation of Scripture is verboten. The Church is the pillar of truth, not murdering thugs who set up theological tyrannies in Geneva.

Most Protestants have little problem with Biblical apparitions, however, they apparently stopped with the Apostles. The Church on the other hand, has this to say:

A Few Basic Concepts

Catholics Are Free to Believe in Apparitions,
But Adhere to the Church’s Directives on the Subject.
Because apparitions are private revelations, Catholics are free to believe in them without Church approval, so long as the apparition contains nothing which contravenes with faith and morals. However, the faithful rely on the Church’s opinions in these matters because of her obvious expertise in the things and the nature of God. The faithful regard the Church as the accepted authority on determining the authenticity of apparitions.

The Church’s approval of an apparition is of tremendous importance to the faithful, as it signals that they may include the message/s of an apparition into their spirituality, if they so choose, without fear of encountering errors.

The Church’s Approval Does Not Come Easily or Quickly
The Church never gives her approval on an apparition without exhaustive and repeated investigation. It is not unusual for the Church to grant approval after the apparitions cease and/or after the death of the visionary.

When The Church Investigates An Apparition
It Signals There Is Enough Evidence to Warrant
the Commitment of Resources
Just as the U.S. Justice System does not launch an investigation without sufficient evidence, neither does the Church commit its resources to an investigation, without sufficient evidence. However, when the U.S. courts have enough evidence to open a case, it is not a happy day for the accused. Conversely, when the Church provides an investigation into an apparition, that action signals that there has been enough evidence to warrant the commitment of the Church’s resources. And, that is a good thing for the subject of the inquiry.

Supervision of the Church’s Investigation Rests with the Authority of the Local Archbishop/ Bishop
This means that the Archbishop or Bishop, of the locality in which the apparition is occurring, has been granted the authority, by the Church, to supervise the case, draw conclusions, and pronounce a decree, (a verdict).

Although it is not a typical occurrence, obstacles and difficulties occurring to members of commissions, tasked with investigating apparitions, have lead to inaccurate conclusions, casting unnecessary doubt on authentic messengers of God. And at times, these errors were not corrected until a great number of years had passed.

Investigations of Apparitions And the Holy See
The Holy See is the center of the Church’s government. It is located in Vatican City, Rome, Italy. The Holy See does not personally attend to the investigation of every apparition. Rather, the supervision of an investigation is under the authority of the local bishop, or as in the case of Emmitsburg, the Archbishop. This local authority provides the Holy See with his conclusions. The findings are reviewed.

The Local Authority’s Decrees Are To Be Given Due Respect
The local authorities, referred to as the local Ordinary, are the archbishops and bishops. They are successors of the Apostles. They are in union with the pope and govern the Church. They are responsible for the spiritual life of the diocese, with archbishops having the added responsibility of a certain amount of responsibility over the bishops in neighboring diocese.
The archbishops and bishops are part of the Church’s authority and make up the Church’s hierarchy. Their guidance is an essential component in the spirituality of the faithful. They are shepherds and work for the benefit of the fold that has been entrusted to their care. Their judgments must always be given due respect.

However, Infallibility Does Not Apply
The Catholic Doctrine of Infallibility teaches of the pope’s inability to err on central issues of the Christian faith, when making an official statement about faith or morals. This doctrine does not extend to any other member of the hierarchy of the Church. Actually, infallibility does not even extend to the pope in his everyday circumstances. Infallibility only extends to the pope when he is making and official statement about issues pertaining to the faith and morals of the Christian faith.

As history has taught us, everyone makes mistakes, we all have weaknesses. Therefore, prayer and openness to the guidance of the Holy Spirit needs to be employed, especially in controversial situations, as they are tools that never fail us, bringing us the gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and reverence of the Lord, making true discernment possible.

The Truth Will Emerge and the Church Will Proclaim It
There is no doubt that debate and controversy will always surround active and on-going private revelations and apparitions. There is also no doubt that in the end, the Church will always provide the faithful with the Truth on the matter.


10,098 posted on 10/30/2007 10:11:25 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr
“a sort of esoteric pseudo-knowledge or mysticism derived from personal, direct spiritual experiences which they took to be Divine revelation”... That definition is not of the Church.

Calvin, however smart or equipped with whatever other gifts, faults and tendencies that he was, is not and never will be a Church Father.

He developed yet another theology based upon personal preferences. One of many thousands in that loose collection known as Protestantism....The Church is the pillar of truth, not murdering thugs who set up theological tyrannies in Geneva.

Because apparitions are private revelations, Catholics are free to believe in them without Church approval, so long as the apparition contains nothing which contravenes with faith and morals.

The Church’s Approval Does Not Come Easily or Quickly

Supervision of the Church’s Investigation Rests with the Authority of the Local Archbishop/ Bishop

The Catholic Doctrine of Infallibility teaches of the pope’s inability to err on central issues of the Christian faith


10,134 posted on 10/30/2007 5:47:04 PM PDT by HarleyD
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