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To: jo kus
[What is destroyed is the body.]

I disagree. Considering how Paul speaks here and throughout, destroying the body is of little consequence to him. What sort of threat would that be to a person causing hate and discontent within the community by telling them that they will die and now join Christ in heaven???

That is exactly what Paul does do with the individual who is sleeping with his father's wife,

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1Cor.5:5).

That individual was a saved man, who was going to suffer the 'sin unto death' (1Jn.5:20), but he would still go to heaven since Christ died for all of his sins.

He is disciplined on earth for them (Heb.13, Gal.6), not in eternity.

[ The Holy Spirit seals the believer until the day of redemption (Eph.4:30). A seal is a mark, a "tatoo", something that says we are 'God's property'. It is not something that prevents you from falling away. Practically speaking, people who have been "sealed" have fallen away and are no longer Christian, so this reality proves that interpretation incorrect. Perhaps you should continue reading Ephesians, about 6 or 7 verses later... ]

When the Holy Spirit seals you, you are sealed forever.

If you want to see what the power of a seal is read the book of Daniel, when Daniel is thrown into the lions den, and the King set a seal on it, and even a King couldn't break it (Dan.6:17).

The King couldn't get in, and Daniel couldn't get out.

That is what the sealing of the Holy Spirit represents.

[ The believer can 'grieve' or 'quench' the Holy Spirit,(relationship issues) but never lose the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit Himself has placed His own seal upon the believer until that individual is redeemed ]

Scripture, please. This does not jive with real life, either. People who are family can disown each other and end their relationship.

A son remains a son no matter what that son does.

The DNA never changes.

Moreover, in the United States, if a child is adopted, that child can never be disinherited.

A natural child may be, but a adopted child can never be.

And a Christian is adopted into the family of God (Rom.8:15)

[ See also Rom.8:38-39 and Jude 24-25 for the role of the Father and Son in eternal security of the believer as well. ]

I disagree with your interpretation. WE can fall away. Romans tells us that GOD will not abandon us, nor can anyone ELSE force us to leave God. WE can, though.

Gee, you sound like an Arminian, not a Catholic.

Rom. 8:38 says 'any other creature'.

That includes even you.

Once you have received the free gift of salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ, nothing and no one can separate you from that relationship.

Whatever sins you commit in time, will be dealt with in time, but you will be punished as child of God (Gal.4).

[ No, there is nothing in any 'sacrament' that adds grace to the believer. ]

Where is your evidence? Sorry, you are not authoritative enough in my mind to take you at your word when you make such declarations, especially without any proof or Scriptural evidence whatsoever...

I am not claiming any authority.

My authority is the word of God.

Nowhere in scripture does it say anything about any 'sacrament' adding grace to the believer.

Paul states in 1Cor.11:24 that the Lord's supper is done in remembrance for Christ's work on the Cross.

But maybe you can direct me to the scripture that says that a Priest can turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

I haven't found that one yet.

10,090 posted on 10/30/2007 7:50:07 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: fortheDeclaration
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1Cor.5:5). That individual was a saved man, who was going to suffer the 'sin unto death' (1Jn.5:20), but he would still go to heaven since Christ died for all of his sins.

Paul does not say what you try to get him to say. He says the man is turned over to satan to wrack the flesh so that the man MIGHT or MAY return. There is no guarantee that he will. Other Scriptures say that some do not return, such as Hebrews 10:26-27. God allows chastizement for the purpose of discipline, again, in Hebrews. That is what Paul is refering to. Again, what is the purpose of threatening someone with "death of the body" but maintaining that they will attain eternal life? The threat has meaning only within the context of losing our inheritance to eternal life, as Paul mentions in Gal 5, 1 Cor 6, Heb 10, Heb 3-4, and so forth. I haven't even covered Peter or Jesus yet, and they say a lot more about this subject.

That individual was a saved man, who was going to suffer the 'sin unto death' (1Jn.5:20), but he would still go to heaven since Christ died for all of his sins.

Then no one will be in hell, correct?

Anyone who comes to the knowledge of the truth and then sins willfully will lose their inheritance. Peter says they will be worse off than if they had NEVER KNEW Jesus! Clearly, sins are only forgiven of those who ask for it. Unrepentant sinners do not ask forgiveness. Former believers who sin again and do not repent will not be granted any special favors. It will be as if they had never been "saved" to begin with.

When the Holy Spirit seals you, you are sealed forever.

yes, and I am sure it will be even more frustrating for a person to spend eternity in hell DESPITE receiving the seal of the Spirit.

A son remains a son no matter what that son does.

Children are disowned or disinherited all the time because of the child's intransigence. The OT gives allowable reasons to kill one such child.

And a Christian is adopted into the family of God (Rom.8:15)

And a few chapters later, Paul says that the branches can be loped off, just as the original branches of the olive tree were lopped off...

Gee, you sound like an Arminian, not a Catholic.

What's the difference, so I can tell you if that is correct?

I am not claiming any authority. My authority is the word of God.

That is not what you are "claiming". We agree that the Bible is the Word of God. What your "authority" claims is that YOU properly interpret God's Word and that the Church is incorrect. You opinion is just as good as any other Protestant's opinion. God granted that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth, not the individual cells APART from the Church. It would behoove you to remember and heed that, if you believe that the Bible is the Word of God and are not merely giving lip service to the idea of being a servant to the Word of God.

Regards

10,145 posted on 10/30/2007 6:57:05 PM PDT by jo kus
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