Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: jo kus
FK responded: We can do nothing good OF OUR OWN.

It is replies like this that convince me that you are not listening and continuing conversation is futile. Read it more carefully and stop jumping to conclusions.

I think I've been listening, and I wasn't jumping to conclusions about you, I was only referring to me and explaining my answer. I wasn't saying, "as opposed to you". My understanding of your position now is that there must be a cooperation between man and God. Each does (H)his own part, but even in the human part you rely on God. I think you'd say that in your own cooperation it is God who is behind it or a part of it. So, to make up numbers, even if you split your "half" with God, that still leaves a "quarter" of the credit going to the man. I'm just trying to come up with a way to express this since I know we disagree on "something" here. :)

IOW, there is some "thing" that you do to make it cooperation instead of God doing it all. Whatever that "thing" is, and who is responsible for it, is what we disagree upon. Perhaps we just disagree on God's management style, hands on versus a delegator. Would you agree to that? :)

10,076 posted on 10/29/2007 4:55:16 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9986 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper
My understanding of your position now is that there must be a cooperation between man and God. Each does (H)his own part, but even in the human part you rely on God. I think you'd say that in your own cooperation it is God who is behind it or a part of it. So, to make up numbers, even if you split your "half" with God, that still leaves a "quarter" of the credit going to the man. I'm just trying to come up with a way to express this since I know we disagree on "something" here. :)

The Bible clearly discusses synergy between God and man. Whenver man says "I obeyed the commandments", or something to that effect, we do not understand that this means "I did it myself". St. Ignatius of Loyola (founder of the Jesuits) wrote something that may be helpful (or may not!):

Pray to God as if everything depended on Him.

Do everything as if everything depended on you.

It is a balance between what the Scriptures tell us. Although it would be nice to look at ONE extreme and ignore the other, the Word of God clearly tells us BOTH. I intend on trying to be a servant to the Word, and will not foist my own theology on the Scriptures which cuts out large pieces of it. As such, without being able to fully understand or explain it to my Protestant reformer brothers, I believe that God does it all and I do it all in a different sense.

I know you won't like that explanation, but practically speaking, I am fully aware that I can choose to disobey God or I can follow those promptings that I feel daily. I am confronted with various situations where I feel God moving me to do something. At times, I will do it, at other times, I do not desire to and will not. Just as Paul in Romans 7, there is a war going on within me. Anytime I do good, it is God moving my will and reforming my nature. However, in the end, I will be judged based on whether I follow my Lord's will. Just as Mt 7:21-22 says. Hearing the Gospel is not enough. Doing the Lord's will is what makes us righteous in God's eyes. Walking in faith and obedience, just as John the Baptist's parents in Luke 1.

My works do not earn salvation, but at the same time, how can I say I am saved if I do not love? How can I say I am saved if I do not show signs of that freedom from sin? Does a alcoholic say he is straight because he went to an AA meeting and then goes to a bar and drinks? NO!

Let us remember, we are new creations, FK. When Paul says "all have sinned", he is talking about the old man. Once we accept Jesus as our Lord and believe in Him and obey Him, we are MADE righteous, not merely declared so. As a result, our anthropology changes - we CAN become just because of God's promptings. All of that "corrupt man" anthropology is tossed out when we receive the Spirit. We are new creations with a new nature. Those who live by faith are clearly expressing their relationship with God, one that is real, not abstract.

I am sorry if I cannot explain this better. God knows I have tried, and I apologize if I still seem to be unclear or am not making sense.

Regards

10,081 posted on 10/29/2007 7:51:33 PM PDT by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10076 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson