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To: jo kus
Do you think Paul thought that Abraham was once and only once declared righteous?

Absolutely. Righteousness is a one point-in-time occurrence. Sanctification is an on-going process.

Now, if all works are actually done by Christ through us, what role do we play?

I think this would be obvious to a Catholic. Our role is exactly like Mary's. We are to say, "Behold the servant of the Lord. Let it be to me according to your word." Mary played no part in her work except submission. Likewise we play no part in our work except submission.

When Catholics or Protestants talk about going out to the world and win people for God, they certainly are not saying that they do it WITHOUT God. That is just the way we speak.

I would agree with you that most people, if you sat them down and question them enough probably believe this. But there is a subtle arrogance underlying our attitude and actions. James points this out when he wrote to Christians saying:

How many of us actually believe it is according to the Lord's will that we go and spend next weekend at Aunt Myrtle's?
10,008 posted on 10/28/2007 10:43:16 AM PDT by HarleyD (Ezr 3:13 the people could not distinguish the sound of joy from the sound of weeping)
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To: HarleyD
Righteousness is a one point-in-time occurrence. Sanctification is an on-going process.

I believe the two terms are synonymous. This is based on the idea that man actually is being transformed and being made righteous/sanctified. With that understanding, would you agree?

I think this would be obvious to a Catholic. Our role is exactly like Mary's. We are to say, "Behold the servant of the Lord. Let it be to me according to your word." Mary played no part in her work except submission. Likewise we play no part in our work except submission.

Yes, there is a lot of truth to what you say. God instills within us the desire to submit, so even that is not our OWN work.

But there is a subtle arrogance underlying our attitude and actions.

You present one of the positive principles of the Reformation! Yes, I said it!

There was an undercurrent of "works salvation" in the Catholic Church, and a corrective was needed. We should take a more balanced approach, however, so as not to destroy the original reformers' intent. Correction does not have to lead to dissension or dissolving of the Church.

You seem to over-emphasize God's work and under-emphasize our response. I believe the Council of Trent spoke against this. You are correct to call to attention that it is God who works within us, but sometimes, I think you should consider being more balanced, recognizing that man is a secondary cause for his actions - otherwise, man is not properly being judged. We are responsible for using God's graces at some level. Thus, I think we should consider that Scriptures appeal to both ideas.

Regards

10,012 posted on 10/28/2007 1:11:39 PM PDT by jo kus
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