Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
Why must we tell the Gospel to all?
If God has preordained an individual to Heaven, then he will go. If God has preordained an individual to hell, then he will go. Regardless of who tells whom what at any time. Right?
Under the Reformed doctrine, since nothing we do matters, then it shouldn’t matter what we do.
Let us not mix up the death of the body with eternal hellfire. God might/may physically kill people in order to accomplish His will here, but that is a different thing from condemning them to hell.
How severe a penalty is depends on an individual's perception. It's relative. If the punishment is meant to discourage then is must be applied proportionally.
If it is meant to stop (prevent) a criminal from ever hurting the society then death penalty and lifelong incarceration are equal justice for all.
You should distinguish between discipline and punishment. To me, discipline is for the future and punishment is for the past.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.If judgment could yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness, then God could throw everyone into hell until they have completely repented, then they would be ready for heaven. But we know that it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. (Romans 2:4)
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.Seven
It was always the faith of the "heal-ee" not the acumen of the "heal-or" that caused and causes healing.. spiritually.. by the Holy Spirit or Jesus.. Could be the Holy Spirit Could Not/CANNOT heal in certain "venues" because it would link him to the practises "held/performed/sinned" there..
There is many kinds of healing not all physical.. even an epiphany from the Holy Spirit is a kind of healing.. Call it a mental healing.. Example: Even knowing what a messiah is and seeing that Jesus is "that one" is a healing.. Jesus is not MERELY a Super-Hero with a fleshly uniform he much much more.. Actually Jesus' flesh is a metaphor of who and what he really is.. "Jesus" existed long before he put on flesh.. and still does.. Jesus is a Spirit..
So God does not condemn anyone to hell?
How do they end up there?
IF THEY DON'T we are ALL in a lot of trouble.. Lazarus proves they do as does Jesus.. If Jesus can remodel a human body as easy(and quickly) as he did with Lazarus and call Lazarus spirit to re-inhabit it.. Human death is a small thing.. except for the permanence OF IT..
Interesting concept... What IS death?...
Live DNA or dead DNA... Is DNA LIFE?...
What is a demon?..
KOSTA: Dr. E seems to think otherwise. She even knows that her children are among the elect (because, quote "God gave them to" her!)! But, then, no one expects concordance among 33,000-plus man-made "denominations."
It's just not that tricky, Kosta. In fact, it's quite simple to grasp from Scripture.
None of us knows the names of the elect, or we would be God. But we have His assurance that if we have been given Trinitarian faith in His son, Jesus Christ, then we are numbered among His children. That's what Scripture tells us in black and white and that's the understanding the Holy Spirit gives us of those Scriptures.
The rest of the world we can only presume to know. But we have pretty good indicators in the evidence of men's lives (always mindful that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" -- Romans 14:23.) And this learning comes from the lips of Christ Himself, no less...
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." -- Matthew 7:16-18 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
So again, your argument is with God and Scripture, Kosta, not with those who preach His word.
As far as our children are concerned, Scripture tells us the promise was made to believers and their families since it is God who creates families in the first place. I trust God. Therefore, I trust He will guide my children to Him.
"She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet." -- Proverbs 31:21
Is your household clothed in the blood of Christ, Kosta?
Funny thing is, the more a parent believes that to be the way of things, the more it becomes true. Almost like it was supposed to be that way.
Do you have children, Kosta?
But of course they indicate what we are supposed to do. No one says otherwise.
However, we do them knowing the absolute truth that...
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13
“To have a any system that is proportional would require the wisdom of Solomon to avoid irony.”
It looks like God is in control of the system. It appears that there is a gradation of punishment in hell, if that is any consolation.
Matt. 11:21-22, “Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.”
Rev. 20::13, “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
No. It never occurred to me that I am not.
Have you ever asked the LORD to be one of his?
No. It never occurred to me that I wasn't.
No. It never occurred to me that I wasn't.
Why do you assume you are one of his?
The Bible containes no such statement. On the other hand, maybe your Bible does. Why not, it contains all sorts of other additions...of men.
That's what Scripture tells us in black and white
No it doesn't.
that's the understanding the Holy Spirit gives us of those Scriptures
The Holy Spirit gives us the understanding that we can be severed from Christ and fall again; but it also tells us that if we, want to be with Him, and follow Him, if we persevere, He will never leave us.
But we have pretty good indicators in the evidence of men's lives (always mindful that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" -- Romans 14:23.)
The only problem is what people consider "faith." Judging from the Protestant/Baptist/LDS/others crowd on these forums, anything goes pretty much. As it turns out, even a faith can be a sin.
And this learning comes from the lips of Christ Himself
If had a penny for every one who has a definition of what is good and evil I'd be a multimillionarie. The only problem here is that the verses don't tell us what is good and what is evil, so everyone can make it up. It's a pretty wide brush you are using to narrow down the argument. I think you won't be able to get a clean line in those tight corners.
So again, your argument is with God and Scripture, Kosta, not with those who preach His word
No, I have no argument with Scriptures. They proclaim universal truth, provided one knows what "truth" or in this case "good" is. My argument is with those who read into the Scriptures their own definitions of what is truth or what is good and, worse, who define themselves as possessing the truth and being good.
Is your household clothed in the blood of Christ, Kosta?
My household has been blessed by a priest in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. His Blood was shed for the whole world, inlcuding my household.
Do you have children, Kosta?
I do.
What makes you think it's an assumption?
Kosta.... What is a demon?...
“The Holy Spirit gives us the understanding that we can be severed from Christ and fall again; but it also tells us that if we, want to be with Him, and follow Him, if we persevere, He will never leave us.”
Where do you find that the “Holy Spirit” gives you understanding about anything? It can’t be the scriptures since they are filled with all sorts of additions of men. It can’t be tradition since that is the product of men’s interpretation and error through transmission over the centuries. So just how does the “Holy Spirit” give you understanding and how do you differentiate what you think is the “Holy Spirit” from just your wishful thinking or last night’s “bad sausage”?
MB: God might/may physically kill people in order to accomplish His will here, but that is a different thing from condemning them to hell.
P-M: So God does not condemn anyone to hell? How do they end up there?
Now come on. Follow the bouncing logic. I said that that killing people physically is different than condemning them to hell. God may kill people AND condemn them to hell, but He may all kill people and judge them to be able to enter Heaven.
That is up to His judgement. Okay, then. Judgement. Judgement of what? Judgement of their deeds, as it says in Matt: 25 and most of the Gospels and much of the NT and a fair bit of the Old.
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