Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
Exactly my point of what prayer means to the predetermined.
Jesus tells us over and over to pray. He even gave us the Lord’s Prayer. But under predestinarianism, prayer means nothing. It is pointless and meaningless.
We do as God wishes and nothing else. Our prayers and our good works are meaningless, since they avail nothing, mean nothing, and do not change the course of anything in the world. I still have not received an answer from the Calvinists as to the efficacy of anything that we do.
I certainly have not received an answer to the question as to why I should bring the Gospel to the world. I have not received an answer to the question as to whether or not an individual who has been elected and not received baptism or the Word of God (getting hazy here amongst beliefs) because I have decided not to do it, will still get into heaven. If so, then anything whatsoever that I do is meaningless.
And therefore, there is no hindrance to me doing whatever I want since either I am of the elect and will get into heaven, or I am not of the elect and will go to hell regardless of what I do. If anything I do here on Earth is meaningless, then what is to stop me from raping and killing a Jessica Lunsford? What separates me from a sadistic human predator like Gerald Couey, if not the Judgement of the Lord?
The heresies began in the first century.
It was only because of the watchfulness of the Church that the first millennium’s heresies were dealt with. It is sad that the second millennium brought the culture of death and opportunism to the forefront, and has entrapped so many otherwise noble lives.
What separates me, other than common human decency?
The fact that Our Lord Jesus Christ will judge my soul moment by moment of my entire life. If the Reformed believe that there will be no Judgement, or that somehow they get a pass, then what gets a Gerald Couey an eternity in hell? Nothing according to Reformed theology.
Preach the Gospel.
Mark 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
Obviously your parishoners would have to understand what the gospel is, but other churches have done a pretty good job of teaching their members.
What should the Church of Jesus Christ do when the arrogance and hubris and pride of mankind leads so many of them into Satanic embrace?
We keep trying to preach the gospel to you. We pray for the lost. My local Church has a good outreach to RC's and apprx 25% of our membership are former RC's who have been saved. It really is not a complicated process, if they have open hearts we read Scripture together.
The Church has done such a poor job when 25% of its members have renounced the Church of Christ. We have so many former Catholics who have embraced the religion of the now, the religion of the slick, the glib and the opportune. The religion of the preacher upon the pulpit right now.
I’m sort of happy that they didn’t land further from the target than they did, but, it is a judgement upon us that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was unable to keep our members from slipping away and joining your church. I am ashamed.
We Believe we were Judged; we were Judged in Jesus Christ's Sacrifice upon the Cross, when He Stood in for us and Payed the Penalty we were Due for All our Sin. Our Debt has been Payed in Full. Either Christ Pays the Debt of our Sin, or we Pay for our own Sin in Hell. Since our Christ has Payed the Debt we Owed, the Debt is Forever Gone.
That Monster Couey is Hell-Bait because he is a Sinner in Adam and in himself, and he will Pay for his Unspeakably Hellish Deed, and Deeds, Forever in the Lake of Fire.
The very Bible they worship tells them otherwise.
It shows that nothing is set in stone. God gives us until the last breath to change our mind and come to Him.
Yet the Bible says that it has been appointed fort men to die once and after this comes judgment [Heb 9:27]
Maranatha, Jesus!
Marantha, Jesus!
[.. We pray for the lost. My local Church has a good outreach to RC’s and apprx 25% of our membership are former RC’s who have been saved ..]
Reading a good church history when they were probably misinformed might be a blessing to many of them..
Miller’s Church History..
http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/ebooks/millers/toc.htm
Praise God!!!
Yeah, but you see they concocted a "get-out-of-jail" card even for this one. They will say that those who commit such sins are not (and never were) the elect. LOL!
They also deny that, once saved, you cannot lose you salvation (fall) because God promises that nothing will snatch you out of His hands.
This flies in the face even of +Paul, from whom they claim to get this theology (by revisionist interpretation of Luther's), when he says: "So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" [1 Cor 10:12]
Duh! And they say the Lord's Supper is a "symbolic" ritual. Yet +Paul says "Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?" [1 Cor 10:16-17] Double Duh!
When your children "fall" are they still not your children?.. You pick them up and wash them off.. practically.. You may warn and/or forgive them..
There are no words in any language I know of to be "UNBORN AGAIN" or after being "born" to be "UNborn".. physically or even spiritually.. "You MUST be born again" - Jesus.. Being UNborn is UNscriptural.. And flys in the face of the image..
Witness the "Prodigal son".. The father ached for his sons learning phase.. and missed him still as his son.. Witness also his brother.. and all that "hubris".. I guess you buy some people books(bibles) and they EAT THE PAGES...
It's our nature, FK. If we give in to our nature, we reject God. It all comes down to that. As long as, and whenever we serve our ego, we reject God.
Yes, it is our Adamic nature to reject God, but it is NOT our nature to thwart God's will. We have never had that power, and if one believes that we control who is to be saved (re: us) then one grants power to man that he does not have.
According to your belief a murderer commits murder because God wants him to. If that is so, then the Reformed God is both Good and Evil, because murder is evil by God's own laws.
The crucifixion itself was an illegal murder by God's own laws, yet God wanted it anyway. Jesus PROVES that by saying that He could have stopped the process at any time (Matt. 26:53), yet He chose not to, and in fact went out of His way to arrange it. So by your statement, Jesus freely admits that He Himself is both Good and Evil. Of course, the Reformed don't arrive at the same conclusions that you do here on our behalf. :)
It is easy to succumb to the deceptive sense of security in the Reformed view, since a secure shelter is what we all seek.
So, then may I assume that the Apostolic God does not provide what His children seek? :) Is it unGodly to want to be secure in Him?
It is also comforting to know that no matter what you do in life, God will forgive you, because you have been saved before you even existed.
Yes, it is very comforting to know that God forgives me for my sins. He says so in scripture. What is objectionable about that?
It is also prideful to belong to an exclusive club, the "select club" of those the King of Kings personally favors. Very flattering.
No, there is no flattery since whatever reason God had for picking me had zero to do with any worthiness on my part. I didn't even exist yet, so how could I pat myself on the back? I just feel blessed and fortunate that I am on the list.
All this points to a human hand in this religion, tailored to man's own (fallen) natural desires: it provides secure shelter; it absolves one of all wrongdoing; it flatters one into believing they are favorites of an otherwise impartial God!
Isn't it your side that has the human hand being in control of everything, especially man's eternal destiny?
FK: "I, for one, want God to be in control of my will ALL THE TIME. :)"
I thought God is in control all the time. Are you saying He isn't in control of your will?
I meant as opposed to the alternative of man being in ultimate control of his own will. I wouldn't want it to be true that I was in control because I would blow it, I'm just not smart enough, independent of God in my free will, to make the right choices.
God IS in control of everything at all times. However, He does not "inject" sin into people in order to cause it. Therefore, when I choose to follow the remnant of my old sin nature it is my choice, a measure (or perception) of control. God retains ultimate control, though, because He retains the power to prevent me from committing that sin if it so suits Him. He allows it sometimes and He prevents it sometimes.
In the reformed way of thinking there can be no surrender because you have no free will. You have been pre-programmed to "surrender" and the tape is just playing itself out.
Who says that there must be your idea of free will for the surrender to be real? When the Japanese surrendered in 1945, would you call that a "free will" decision? :) Did they not really surrender?
Amen, and yes, that is Very True that the Believer will be Judged for Rewards for Service, but his Salvation was Already Accomplished by our Christ upon the Cross. Many of our Works will be Burned Up, because they were Done for Wrong Motives, instead of for the Glory of God, but Any Works Standing the Test will be Rewarded.
The LDS, the JWs and whatever other “cults” you’re referring to are not Protestant denominations and they are certainly not reformed.
With good seats in Heaven?
Astounding. The fact you dismiss this core belief of Christianity positions yourself outside the church of God and contrary to God's word...again.
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." -- 1 Corinthians 6:20
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