Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
Wednesday, 11 July 2007
Yesterday's Reuters headline: "The Vatican on Tuesday said Christian denominations outside the Roman Catholic Church were not full churches of Jesus Christ." The actual proclamation, posted on the official Vatican Web site, says that Protestant Churches are really "ecclesial communities" rather than Churches, because they lack apostolic succession, and therefore they "have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery." Furthermore, not even the Eastern Orthodox Churches are real Churches, even though they were explicitly referred to as such in the Vatican document Unitatis Redintegratio (Decree on Ecumenism). The new document explains that they were only called Churches because "the Council wanted to adopt the traditional use of the term." This new clarification, issued officially by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, but in fact strongly supported by Pope Benedict XVI, manages to insult both Protestants and the Orthodox, and it may set ecumenism back a hundred years.
The new document, officially entitled "Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church," claims that the positions it takes do not reverse the intent of various Vatican II documents, especially Unitatis Redintegratio, but merely clarify them. In support of this contention, it cites other documents, all issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: Mysterium Ecclesiae (1973), Communionis notio (1992), and Dominus Iesus (2000). The last two of these documents were issued while the current pope, as Cardinal Ratzinger, was prefect of the Congregation. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was born in 1542 with the name Sacred Congregation of the Universal Inquisition, and for centuries it has operated as an extremely conservative force with the Roman Catholic Church, opposing innovation and modernizing tendencies, suppressing dissent, and sometimes, in its first few centuries, persecuting those who believed differently. More recently, the congregation has engaged in the suppression of some of Catholicism's most innovative and committed thinkers, such as Yves Congar, Hans Küng, Charles Curran, Matthew Fox, and Jon Sobrino and other liberation theologians. In light of the history of the Congregation of the Faith, such conservative statements as those released this week are hardly surprising, though they are quite unwelcome.
It is natural for members of various Christian Churches to believe that the institutions to which they belong are the best representatives of Christ's body on earth--otherwise, why wouldn't they join a different Church? It is disingenuous, however, for the leader of a Church that has committed itself "irrevocably" (to use Pope John Paul II's word in Ut Unum Sint [That They May Be One] 3, emphasis original) to ecumenism to claim to be interested in unity while at the same time declaring that all other Christians belong to Churches that are in some way deficient. How different was the attitude of Benedict's predecessors, who wrote, "In subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the [Roman] Catholic Church--for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame" (Unitatis Redintegratio 3). In Benedict's view, at various times in history groups of Christians wandered from the original, pure Roman Catholic Church, and any notion of Christian unity today is predicated on the idea of those groups abandoning their errors and returning to the Roman Catholic fold. The pope's problem seems to be that he is a theologian rather than a historian. Otherwise he could not possibly make such outrageous statements and think that they were compatible with the spirit of ecumenism that his immediate predecessors promoted.
One of the pope's most strident arguments against the validity of other Churches is that they can't trace their bishops' lineages back to the original apostles, as the bishops in the Roman Catholic Church can. There are three problems with this idea.
First, many Protestants deny the importance of apostolic succession as a guarantor of legitimacy. They would argue that faithfulness to the Bible and/or the teachings of Christ is a better measure of authentic Christian faith than the ability to trace one's spiritual ancestry through an ecclesiastical bureaucracy. A peripheral knowledge of the lives of some of the medieval and early modern popes (e.g., Stephen VI, Sergius III, Innocent VIII, Alexander VI) is enough to call the insistence on apostolic succession into serious question. Moreover, the Avignon Papacy and the divided lines of papal claimants in subsequent decades calls into serious question the legitimacy of the whole approach. Perhaps the strongest argument against the necessity of apostolic succession comes from the Apostle Paul, who was an acknowledged apostle despite not having been ordained by one of Jesus' original twelve disciples. In fact, Paul makes much of the fact that his authority came directly from Jesus Christ rather than from one of the apostles (Gal 1:11-12). Apostolic succession was a useful tool for combating incipient heresy and establishing the antiquity of the churches in particular locales, but merely stating that apostolic succession is a necessary prerequisite for being a true church does not make it so.
The second problem with the new document's insistence upon apostolic succession is the fact that at least three other Christian communions have apostolic succession claims that are as valid as that of the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox Churches, which split from the Roman Catholic Church in 1054, can trace their lineages back to the same apostles that the Roman Catholic Church can, a fact acknowledged by Unitatis Redintegratio 14. The Oriental Orthodox Churches, such as the Coptic and Ethiopic Orthodox Churches, split from the Roman Catholic Church several centuries earlier, but they too can trace their episcopal lineages back to the same apostles claimed by the Roman Catholic Church as its founders. Finally, the Anglican Church, which broke away from the Roman Catholic Church during the reign of King Henry VIII, can likewise trace the lineage of every bishop back through the first archbishop of Canterbury, Augustine. In addition to these three collections of Christian Churches, the Old Catholics and some Methodists also see value in the idea of apostolic succession, and they can trace their episcopal lineages just as far back as Catholic bishops can.
The third problem with the idea of apostolic succession is that the earliest bishops in certain places are simply unknown, and the lists produced in the third and fourth centuries that purported to identify every bishop back to the founding of the church in a particular area were often historically unreliable. Who was the founding bishop of Byzantium? Who brought the gospel to Alexandria? To Edessa? To Antioch? There are lists that give names (e.g., http://www.friesian.com/popes.htm), such as the Apostles Mark (Alexandria), Andrew (Byzantium), and Thaddeus (Armenia), but the association of the apostles with the founding of these churches is legendary, not historical. The most obvious breakdown of historicity in the realm of apostolic succession involves none other than the see occupied by the pope, the bishop of Rome. It is certain that Peter did make his way to Rome before the time of Nero, where he perished, apparently in the Neronian persecution following the Great Fire of Rome, but it is equally certain that the church in Rome predates Peter, as it also predates Paul's arrival there (Paul also apparently died during the Neronian persecution). The Roman Catholic Church may legitimately claim a close association with both Peter and Paul, but it may not legitimately claim that either was the founder of the church there. The fact of the matter is that the gospel reached Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Edessa, and other early centers of Christianity in the hands of unknown, faithful Christians, not apostles, and the legitimacy of the churches established there did not suffer in the least because of it.
All the talk in the new document about apostolic succession is merely a smokescreen, however, for the main point that the Congregation of the Faith and the pope wanted to drive home: recognition of the absolute primacy of the pope. After playing with the words "subsists in" (Lumen Gentium [Dogmatic Constitution on the Church] 8) and "church" (Unitatis Redintegratio 14) in an effort to make them mean something other than what they originally meant, the document gets down to the nitty-gritty. "Since communion with the Catholic Church, the visible head of which is the Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Peter, is not some external complement to a particular Church but rather one of its internal constitutive principles, these venerable Christian communities lack something in their condition as particular churches." From an ecumenical standpoint, this position is a non-starter. Communion with Rome and acknowledging the authority of the pope as bishop of Rome is a far different matter from recognizing the pope as the "visible head" of the entire church, without peer. The pope is an intelligent man, and he knows that discussions with other Churches will make no progress on the basis of this prerequisite, so the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the pope, despite his protestations, has no interest in pursuing ecumenism. Trying to persuade other Christians to become Roman Catholics, which is evidently the pope's approach to other Churches, is not ecumenism, it's proselytism.
Fortunately, this document does not represent the viewpoint of all Catholics, either laypeople or scholars. Many ordinary Catholics would scoff at the idea that other denominations were not legitimate Churches, which just happen to have different ideas about certain topics and different ways of expressing a common Christianity. Similarly, many Catholic scholars are doing impressive work in areas such as theology, history, biblical study, and ethics, work that interacts with ideas produced by non-Catholic scholars. In the classroom and in publications, Catholics and non-Catholics learn from each other, challenge one another, and, perhaps most importantly, respect one another.
How does one define the Church? Christians have many different understandings of the term, and Catholics are divided among themselves, as are non-Catholics. The ecumenical movement is engaged in addressing this issue in thoughtful, meaningful, and respectful ways. Will the narrow-minded view expressed in "Responses" be the death-knell of the ecumenical movement? Hardly. Unity among Christians is too important an idea to be set aside. Will the document set back ecumenical efforts? Perhaps, but Christians committed to Christian unity--Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant alike--will get beyond it. The ecumenical movement is alive and well, and no intemperate pronouncement from the Congregation of the Faith, or the current pope, can restrain it for long. Even if ecumenism, at least as it involves the Roman Catholic Church's connection with other Churches, is temporarily set back a hundred years, that distance can be closed either by changes of heart or changes of leadership.
Overcoming denomination in the family of God is a good work..
Lets hope we all become overcomers..
Friend hosepipe;
I have skimmed through Foxe once again. Due, of course, to my own inability, I am unable to find an individual who was murdered by the Roman Catholics for reading a Bible. If you would, please point out the chapter, page and name.
I would be grateful.
Hmm; rather short, stumpy and flat chested. Am I looking at a Hillary Clinton fan club?
Salvation is exactly as is described in the Bible and reaffirmed in the Catechism.
I don’t think that the process of salvation is a fad, requiring a new look and methodology every time somebody wants to set up a new church.
Praise God!!!
Exactly.. I have known christians that accepted christ out somewhere "under a tree" on their own and was "saved".. or regenerated.. The Holy Spirit is ALIVE and is subject to no club to hamper his work.. The Holy Spirit needs NO clergy or clubs.. Any clergy needs the Holy Spirit.. if they are clergy indeed in the first place.. many maybe MOST are NOT.. The Holy SPirit appoints and "gifts" "church" officials.. A club cannot DO THAT..
Denomination of the Body of Christ is a perceived mirage..
And a fleshy pursuit..
Do they believe that the Holy Spirit will leave the believer if they don't do specific things?
Better than that read the book Madame Guyon.. It goes into much more detail of the gambits employed by the malefactors I speak of.. John Foxes recounts some but if you are serious this book may shed some light on the subject in a better more though way.. We are talking about a "spirit" here a malicious spirit.. This spirit is not Wholly Roman catholic but the book(Madame Guyon) recounts the RC aspects of it.. Discrediting Foxes book of Martyrs will not happen anyway..
Its Googleable..
Our names have been written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. It is the book of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world. (Revelation)
His family established in the new heaven and new earth is the Final Cause of "all that there is."
But God, Who is timeless and spaceless per se, sees it all at once.
Which would you recommend?
The scriptures don’t tell you otherwise.
Our Blessed Mother was very important and fulfills typology of Scripture more then you might realize.
Take a look ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1871016/posts?page=4#4
You Also Said...
""I think you need to read Acts carefully. Paul was BLINDED by the Light of Jesus. He was on the way to DESTROY Christians when Jesus Changed him. Paul made no decision for Jesus, Jesus chose him.””
God leaned very heavily on Paul for sure,but Paul still had a free Will Choice to accept God’s Will,keep in mind that God sends trials to many people and still does.
If Paul had not become ill while on his first missionary journey and been forced to stop traveling, he would not have preached to the Galatians, for he tells them, “You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first” (Gal. 4:13). If he had not preached to the Galatians, he would not have later written them the epistle that appears in our New Testament. God used Paul’s illness to bring salvation to the Galatians and to bring us a work of Scripture, through which we are still receiving benefits from God.
This is just one example of how God used suffering to bring about good. Therefore, if we suffer, we should look upon it as an opportunity for good, such as by offering up our sufferings for our own sanctification and for our departed brothers and sisters in Christ.
I wish you a Blessed weekend!
I,m off to travel for a few days
IMHO, the pens serve a good purpose especially for the young Christians who do not yet trust the Good Shepherd enough to follow Him through the gate into the open field much less through the valley of the shadow of death or into the company of wolves.
The important part though is that the sheep will follow the Good Shepherd eventually - whether He leads Him into another pen or somewhere else.
Love God surpassingly above all else. Believe Him. Trust Him. Follow Him.
Do they believe that the Holy Spirit will leave the believer if they don't do specific things?
I say this just to point out how difficult a question this is:
Is there anywhere where God is not? Is there anywhere where God is and the Holy Spirit is not?
Is the meaning of God's "presence" or "absence" simple and easy to talk about or not?
I'm going with NOT.
Ver 1.1: The MEANING may be simple. Talking about it is not.
And that's why I don't think the question as posed is likely to lead to useful knowledge.
[.. Which would you recommend? .]
Millers Church History.. there are others. but that will do..
http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/ebooks/millers/toc.htm
Lets hope.. the seven churchs in asia don't seem to be so optimistic maybe.. But "we" are... LoL.. Sheep pens(John ch 10) carry an interesting idea.. as does the gate of the sheep pen.. A beautiful and prophetic metaphor I would say..
Fairly said. That is our Sacrament, as the link indicated.
However, the fact that Jesus can call down the Holy Spirit on whomever He wishes does not alter the fact that the Church was instructed to call down the Holy Spirit via an authorized member of the Church laying on hands and asking for it to happen.
Are you saying now that Foxe does not contain information about even one individual that was murdered by the Roman Catholic Church simply for reading a Bible? You know, what you accused the Church of doing?
Tsk, tsk.
Does Madame Guyon have that information?
Maranatha, Jesus!
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