Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. [Mat 5:45]
I beg to differ on both accounts. St. Paul speaks of the Spirit of God and not of a separate Trinitarian Hypostasis, i.e. God (or Lord, vasileos) the Holy Spirit. In St. Paul's case, the Spirit is subordained to God (the Father), not co-substantial with Him. St. Paul's concept of the Holy Spirit is perfectly Judaic, being God's energy rather than a Divine Hypostasis.
Christians eventually developed the concept of grace that represents God uncreated enegries, as the understanding of the Trinitarian formula evolved and the Holy Spirit was recognized as a Divine Hypostasis and God Himself that estows grace.
The Greek terms for "self" is autos. Depending on the Greek gender of the word (which the English language doesn't have), the appropriate pronoun will be he/she/it. Some English-bible translations use "it" others "he" (i.e. NIV) when referring to the Holy Spirit, which is grammatically correct.
There is nothing in St. Paul's writing to indicate that he speaks of the Holy Spirit as a "he" because the Greek word pneuma (spirit) is of neutral gender (neither masculine nor feminine), so the appropriate pronoun is it.
The fact that it appears as a "he" in some English translations shows that some have taken it upon themselves to "correct" the infallible word of God so as to make it fit out theology.
Very appropriate. Thank you.
Is God powerful enough to save them all? Is God loving enough to save them all? Does God care that not all will come to him? Or does God have another plan for those who he knows will not become children of God?
God has said that he will save his own. The fact that some will not be saved means that they were never his own. They were his creation, but not his children. That is the difference. Man cannot thwart God. Man cannot surprise God. Man does not have a free will to choose God.
Believe what you want.
Still having trouble with the idea of God creating people that he does not ‘own.’ How does God do that?
Agree, but it's just the same for us Calvinists. We keep getting accused that man has no will when in fact we make it very clear that man indeed does have a will. Catholics believe man must cooperate with God's grace exercising their will. Calvinists believe that will is bound in sin and cannot cooperate with God until it has been set free. A fine but important technical point.
We believe, however, that God reaches out with His Grace to all, not those elected from the cosmic bingo barrel.
Well if God reaches out with His Grace to all, why did you choose and not someone else? Wasn't it because of your efforts?
Not a matter of owning, just a matter of doing as he wishes with his creation. Our problem is that we elevate man to a higher plane that God does. We are just a creation, higher than animals, to be sure, but still a creation. It is only when HE, of his own accord, elevates some to a saved level, are they worthy of praising God, worshipping God, loving God, and living with God. Then, and only then, are we children of God.
Protestantism is anything goes because every individual makes up his or her own theology and his or her own god just the way he or she likes it, just as they make up their own speed limit, rules and what not. It's narcissistic and egocentric.
Not only idiotic but untrue. Are you a graduate of the Goebbels School Of Propaganda.
You mean like some men, who leave a trail of children who never know their fathers! Some role model this would be! Just disown them, as if you had nothing to do with them...Yup, I made them, but they're not my children. To hell with them (no pun intended)!
The Prots will tell you God does not answer to anyone; He does as He pleases (every man's dream!). A man-made tyrant, deadbeat father and a narcissistic nut. Some "god" that is.
Protestants....ugh
Let me quote you: Iditiotic. Was it meant to be?
You can't put together more than a one-liner insult. I am not interested in your bad mood. This discussion is over. Go pick on someone else, or, better yet, pay someone to listen to you.
Your belief? God doesn’t have the power to save everyone, so he sends out the message hoping that some will choose believe. The others are lost and he is incapable of saving them because they do not believe. Your god is weak. Your god sits there hoping that some will turn to him. Your god can’t communicate to you, so he has a hierarchy so that his message maybe will cascade down to the masses so they will believe. Your god loses so many and is incapable of saving them. Your god gives no assurance of salvation because he is too weak to do so. Your god has to trust you to have the wisdom and impetus to change your way so that you will believe in him. Your god is too weak to change you himself, and cannot do it without your will. You are more powerful that your god. You make your god dance to your tune.
My God did not waste one drop of His blood when He was nailed to the cross.
Yup.
Wrong.
[H]e sends out the message hoping that some will choose believe
Wrong again.
The others are lost and he is incapable of saving them because they do not believe
Wrong, over and over.
Your god is weak
By whose scale? Yours?
Your god sits there hoping that some will turn to him
False
Your god can’t communicate to you, so he has a hierarchy so that his message maybe will cascade down to the masses so they will believe
Not true.
Your god loses so many and is incapable of saving them
Not true again.
No, actually, a compassionate sigh. How can people be so wrong to love a god made in their image, a tyrant who makes humans just so they would burn in hell and call him "love?" Pittiful.
I think probably the simpliest, or simplified, way to see the difference is not in the manner in which God acts or is experienced, Grace, but in our difference in that we believe God’s Grace is for all is children, all humans.
In other words, all the love, grace, the drawing toward Him (and the suffering that sin and separation bring) that you see for the elect, we see for all.
So, simplifying: it’s not so much the how but the whom in which we differ from Calvinism.
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