Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
But we Orthodox do not reject Apostolic teaching.
Sure you do, you have rejected every single passage from the Apostolic teaching I have presented you, which is as celar as clear can be, that the Sacrifice of Christ was propitiatory.
We have preserved it inviolate for 2000 years. I'm trust you will forgive me if I find your notions "innovative".
Those "notions" are not "innovative", unless you are now claiming that the clear Apostolic teachings of Scripture are "innovative".
I've already answered that. I suggest you go back and read it again, and again, until you understand what was actually said. I might suggest you read them slower this time.
That's easy. Read this; it will tell you what Orthodoxy believes about atonement:
Yes, I know the EO position of the Atonement conquering death.
Why omit the propitiation?
Why Omit everything in the OT and NT Apostolic teaching on the propitiatory nature of the Atonement?
“that the Sacrifice of Christ was propitiatory.”
Why do you say that Orthodoxy rejects the notion that Christ’s sacrifice was propitiary? Of course it was. Reread the Paschal Sermon. Its shorter than +Athanasius the Great “On the Incarnation”, but you could read that too. In fact, that might be a good idea.
That's easy. Read this; it will tell you what Orthodoxy believes about atonement:
Yes, I know the EO position of the Atonement conquering death.
Why omit the propitiation?
Why Omit everything in the OT and NT Apostolic teaching on the propitiatory nature of the Atonement?
And even go so far as to call God a monster for the great love He has for the Elect displayed in the offering of Christ as the sacrificial Lamb of God, by whose Blood is paid the just penalty we owe for our sin. Amazing and sad.
Explain, then, the tree in the garden. Did not God put it there? Did not God put it there for a purpose? What was that purpose other than to allow man to sin? It was ALL part of God’s perfect plan.
Two things, (1) changes to the Ecumenical Council's decisions cannot be made by local councils or patriarchates, but only by another Ecumenical Council. Chances are that would not happen except to expand on the truth already established by the previous Ecumenical Councils.
(2) The original word used in the Creed in Greek is not to "send." The Greek word implies the origin. The Latin word procedere used in the Creed does not.
Additional problems with filioque involve suggestion of double origin as expressed in the west. This violates the monarchy of the Father who is the cause of everything and all including divinity, and who is the only Hypostasis without cause.
Furthermore, the New testament is crystal clear that the Holy Spirit, Who proceeds (originates in Greek) from the Father is sent to the Son (likewise the Son seds Him back to the Father). But the Holy Spirit, a Lord, and Giver of Life, as regards His existence preceeds only from the Father. That is the baseline truth revealed to us about the eternal origin of the Spirit, just as the baseline truth about the origin of the Son is that the Word (Logos) is eternally begotten from the Father.
Thank you.
***Why do you think Jesus Himself taught so much on hell?***
He knew he was going there to visit?
Gee, it couldn't have been your comments of the God of the Bible being a "monster", saying I worship a "monster", for God's Wrath against sin being satisfied by the Blood of His Own Son as payment for our sins. Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it couldn't be anything like that, now could it?
Gee, it couldn't have been your comments of the God of the Bible being a "monster", saying I worship a "monster", for God's Wrath against sin being satisfied by the Blood of His Own Son as payment for our sins. Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it couldn't be anything like that, now could it?
Or was he misstating the EO position again?
Truth hurts, I know. :)
However, it's better than anything-goes "churches."
He knew he was going there to visit?
Or ran out of things to teach. LOL
Sort of like having to go visit the in-laws. Ya gotta go, but you don’t want to?
Truth hurts, I know. :)
No, I love the truth, and the truth is NEITHER the EO or Roman church are the one, only, true church, both are equally pompous and prideful, and wrong on a great many things.
And there is where the EO gets into trouble. The "origin" is in the context of the sending, not of ontology.
I think that is what I said, when I said that Rome unilaterally included the filoque in violation of the canons of Nicea and Chalcedon which prohibited the altering of the Nicene Creed, prohibitions which carried the penalty of anathema, thus placing Rome under anthema for it's violation.
Read it again, that is what I said.
“By the way, anything from the Pseudo Council of Florence will get you exactly nowhere with us Orthodox”
Dear Brother,I was not trying to get anywhere, I was only trying to understand the orthodox view.
Please don’t “read into it” as me knowing it all,because I don’t.
“Gee, it couldn’t have been your comments of the God of the Bible being a “monster”, saying I worship a “monster”, for God’s Wrath against sin being satisfied by the Blood of His Own Son as payment for our sins. Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it couldn’t be anything like that, now could it?”
Shouldn’t be. The theology of The Church is quite clear, MLG, as is the error of the West in worshiping a blood thirsty monster. Unless of course I’ve got it wrong and the West really doesn’t believe that Christ’s bloody sacrifice was meant to propitiate a wrathful and blood lusting god. Tell me I got it wrong, MLG. :)
Well, relativism by definition reject absolute truth. And Porestantism is founded on relativism. The Protestants themselves can't agree on anything because every Prtestant believes something different and claims his personal belief to be the real truth while assailing "traditions of men."
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