Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
I'll try and remember that as they call for my death
Those who worship the Lord must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Those are Jesus' words, and it's obvious that those who add willy-nilly things like Assumption, Immaculate Conception, and Coredemption of Mary to the Christian faith are doing nothing different than what Joseph Smith did with the Mormons. They've got their own little book for their sect, and so do the RCs....these "traditions" they've accumulated over the years like barnacles on a ship. (Someone clean the crust off.)
"Holy Orders" have no value. I can probably find by google search in a matter of minutes any number of so-called "priests" who were received lock, stock, barrel, wives & kids from other denominations that were just proclaimed unworthy.
This guy speaks out of both sides of his mouth, he's an unfaithful witness, and to listen to him is wasted air time.
It's time for DrE to call him the anti-christ again. :>)
“Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.”
- on the contrary, i believe it will help ecumenism. The BS ecumenism that is around today (particularly in Germany) causes each faith group to reduce its beliefs down to nothing in attempt to please the other party - i have seen this first hand. Only when each faith group firmly proclaims its faith can true ecumenism be possible and believing your church is the true church is part of that.
Can we settle for "semi-christ"? :-)
Protestant churches may not have a sacramental priesthood but they also don’t pray to statues!
“Semi-Christ”
As in MAC Truck?? :>)
I saw this Trucker for Jesus Semi once....I think it’s online somewhere...He’d painted his truck in this awesome portrayal of the message of Christ. (I’m gonna see if I can find a link.)
Weren't all the founders dead, when Mormonism came around? ^_^
and this validates Islam ?
No, more like guilt by association ^_^
Lee Harvey Oswald was a decendant of Noah
I believe you are starting to get the idea. There was no Noah's Ark.
i might beg to differ dude - Im a pastor
Do Christians feel that way when the true God of Abraham, when Jesus Christ is insulted? Are we supposed to? Has not the Lord God already defeated His enemies? Does it edify us to feel insulted when wrong is spoken of the Lord? Does that show our faith in Him, or lack thereof? Perhaps we should all take a long deep trip through the Psalms!
Not everything is about salvation alone. In Christian theology we will account for our use of the gifts God gave us, our "talents," so Catholics and Protestants can recognize that each has saints and we are one body divided, AND can vehemently disagree on major theological issues AND can feel that we are obligated to do so. Salvation, saving grace, is step one for a Christian, not the whole race.
THANK YOU for that eminently sensible viewpoint. :)
So why would I personally care what the pope thinks about my faith. The pope is not omniscient, neither am I. Sooner or later, each of us will stand individually in front of the Lord and be accountable for our thoughts, words and deeds. I have enough sin in my own life to worry about what someone else thinks about my faith, no matter who he is or who people want to think he is.
i might beg to differ dude - Im a pastor
I know you are. That is why I said it ^_^
I am a scientist and Noah's Ark doesn't pass the test. You were the one that brought up Noah ^_^
To speed up the conversation. In the end you will be forced to say that Noah's Ark was a Miracle and that God can do anything. And I will ask you if he can do anything then couldn't he have gone to America before he was resurrected?
What you call "crust" we (and the Orthodox, and the other oriental Churches) say is the *esse*, the very life and being of the Church which is part of the divine revelation that Christ gave to the Apostles. We would not THINK of throwing away the belief of the Real Presence of the Eucharist any more than you would throw away a book of the Bible.
The Reformation made its decision to scrap these so-called "accumulations", and by doing so, it wrote itself out of being considered a true Church by the other communities who preserved them. Period. It was as true at the Council of Trent as it is now.
This document is nothing new on that score.
Being alive is a miracle, we just don’t acknowledge that fact very often because we take it for granted.
I did not mention presence.
I mentioned those things that have not got one whit, one iota of biblical backing....assumption, immaculate conception, and coredemption of Mary.
They are made-up-by-man additions....no different than Joseph Mormon Smith making up golden plates in New York state.
“You DO know that the founders of this country didn’t consider Mormonism OR Catholicism proper religions, don’t you?”
The founding fathers all had to be dead before Joseph Smith had his revelation and never heard of Mormonism. While they certainly had no love for Catholicism, there was at least one Catholic who signed our Declaration of Independence.
um - no this is the part where I express sadness that you derive a hollow comfort in mancenteredness, knowing full well our understanding of the cosmos and the earths history is extremely limited, since science has really only been practiced earnestly for the past several hundred years.....
That said - please explain how the how the big bang expanded at just the right constant, how earth formed at just the right distance from the sun, how earths atmosphere has just the right amount of O2, how an unintelligent primordial soup has the collective intelligence to realize it needs lungs, eyes, ears, smell, legs, arms, fingers, a pituitary gland, teeth, a tongue and of course a brain
This is the part where you say evolution - blah blah blah
I agree with the principle of your theory. That is why I pinged you.
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