Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
The church is the body of Christ, not your favorite denomination. How can a Christian reading the bible ever be a vain thign?
Thanks for your kind word.
True, true.
Blessings.
Christ did not establish denominations, He established a Church, a real, visible Church that is the pillar and ground of truth, has authority and will never fail.
How can a Christian reading the bible ever be a vain thign?
When it's done out of anything but love.
You are just too much. I have to reject the so-called authority of one who kisses and by that kiss puts his stamp of approval on the Koran. I know many roman catholics that are totally disgusted by that, as they should be. There is something very very wrong about with what he did and also to say that Muslims worship the same God of Abraham. I know that your eyes are yet blinded to see that. It has nothing to do with being RC or not. And to say that discussing Muslims mean they, as a people are flagged for salvation is about as ridiculour idea that I have heard in quite some time. Perhaps you will take all of this to prayer. If you want to follow someone who embraces evil as the office has done, then I certainly cannot do anything more than what I have tried to warn you.
You'll have to prove slander.
I'll openly admit to anti-RC bigotry. So what? I vehemently disagree with their teachings as they disagree with protestant teachings. Big freakin' deal.
And yes, he works hard. So what?
President Bush works hard. He also lives in luxury; the best of food, a mansion, limosines, servants....
Don't confuse luxury with leisure. I know the difference, do you?
So what? Report me some more. I couldn't care less.
Where does the Pope live? The Vatican? Isn't the Vatican a palacial complex?
Or does he live in a 3/2 ranch house in suburbia?
Does the Pope eat day old bread to save a dime?
Or does he eat the best of foods, prepared by professionals?
Does he get his clothes from K mart?
Or are his clothes tailor made from the best of materials?
Does he tend to all his own personal needs?
Or does he have a staff of attendents that serve him?
Of course he has no Earthly worries or needs...everything he could possibly want is his for the asking.
Hmmmm....lives in a palace with guards and servants, first class travel where ever hd goes, top notch food, tailored clothes of fine material (Prada shoes!)...and catered to?
Sounds like luxury to me.
Yes, it is the "body of Christ". That is all born again Christians irrespective of where they are on Sunday morning.
for your own vain reading of scripture. I have laid out the reasoning for anyone willing to see
No, you have not. Not at all. That is why I keep asking you for a scriptural foundation. Your reasoning does not make sense. It is not logical nor is it biblical. When I questioned your reasoning, trying to understand how in the world you came to that conclusion, or when called you on faulty reasong, you resorted to essentially name-calling which goes to show even further that your reasoning does not hold water.
The sad fact that the previous Pope kissed the Koran has nothing to do with what we were discussing, why do you keep bring up the actions of a dead man? Also, no where did I or the catechism state that the Muslims are flagged for salvation. If you can’t accurately represent what my position after this much time, I believe we are wasting each others time. Lets agree to disagree and to pray for all sinners.
No more than it proves that all catholics are logic impared just because one is. I have not read far into this substantial thread. I suspect your glass house has been a pile of shards for a while now.
Thank you for your time and viewpoints.
May He bless you from His grace. His peace be with you.
One Church, One Truth, One Faith, One Lord. One, not many, He is the God of unity, not discord.
Really?!? You had better contact these folks then and get them straightened out: http://jewsforjesus.org/ . At least some of them do.
I had no idea that one forsakes his or her lineage upon a change of heart, but since you have pointed out that the discussion was about the tennants of Jewish faith, allow me to paraphrase: There are ZERO Jews who do not believe in the Trinity who do believe in the trinity. Agreed!
Pardon my error is saying that the Muslims were flagged for salvation. I did not state that right. I meant to say that there is no biblical foundation that says that one group of Gentiles is favored over another. In fact, in the just plain reading of scripture it is obvious that is not the case. It has nothing to do with interpretation because it is very clearly stated throughout all of scripture.
Even though I cannot agree to disagree, I will agree that this conversation has more than run its course. You cannot see that the Muslims serve Satan, and I certaintly can't change that. All I could do was to point it out. What you do with that fact is between you and the Lord God Jesus Christ on that day.
As long as your happy, that’s what counts.
Great, you finally see that for what ever reason, Muslims will play some role in God's plan of salvation, a role that seems to have more prominence, shall we say than the Yanomamo.!
The teaching that it is, and the demonstration of it by a pope kissing the koran is what we have been discussing\
No I was discussing a section of the catechism on the Muslims that was being misrepresented by several protestant posters, you brought up Pope John Paul II.
I meant to say that there is no biblical foundation that says that one group of Gentiles is favored over another.
There is no biblical foundation for needing a biblical foundation. There's a man made tradition that calls for it but I would recommend against clinging to those kind of things.
Best of luck.
You’ve shown admirable restraint and self-control in your posts. If you’d like to carry on a courteous discussion on some of the points you mentioned, I would welcome it.
In Christ.
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