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To: SoothingDave
You have priests with direct succession from the Apostles and your Church dispenses saving grace through the sacraments?

I'm sorry, but the "sacraments" don't provide salvation. The only thing required for salvation was Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and my repentance and acceptance of that sacrifice for my sins. The Communion table is a rite or ritual that we are commanded to follow after we have received salvation, so that we remember the sacrifice He made on our behalf. It has no role in salvation or sanctification in and of itself.

Furthermore, I can find nothing in the scripture to support a teaching that an "apostolic succession" is necessary for a group of believers to be a part of the Church of Christ. As you read the New Testament, virtually everywhere a group of believers existed, they were referred to as the church. The Church is not the RCC, the UMC, the SBC, or any other organization - the Church is comprised of everyone who bleieves in Christ and has accepted His gift of salvation, as explained in the bible, not in any denominational doctrine (and yes, for this purpose, I refer to the RCC as another denomination).

247 posted on 07/10/2007 1:03:42 PM PDT by CA Conservative
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To: CA Conservative
So, that's a "no" then?

So why all the crying when the Catholic church makes a distinction that Protestants agree with?

252 posted on 07/10/2007 1:07:41 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: CA Conservative
The following is an excerpt from Yada Yahweh, by the same guy who put together Prophet of Doom.. http://yadayahweh.com/Yada_Yahweh_God_Damn_Religion_Jezebel.YHWH The centerpiece of the Catholic Mass is the consumption of a wafer that is directly related to idolatry - based as it is upon the religious rituals first celebrated in Babylon, and later in Egypt, and pagan Rome. All the Messiah suggested during His last Passover meal, was that we should remember Him within the full prophetic symbolism of the Miqras of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and FirstFruits - all of which Catholics ignore. The way the "Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist" is practiced, and its connection to cannibalistic "Transubstantiation, where the bread is actually turned into the body of the Lord," and to the "Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary" represents "the practice of idolatry." Even the Priest’s pagan-inspired celibacy, has been shown to lead directly to "an indulgence in sexual immorality." There is a common theme to Yahshua’s first four letters. They all address the consequence of tolerating false teachers and errant doctrines. In this case, the Thyatira Assembly did more than just permit evil in their presence; they pardoned the perpetrators and followed the false prophets. As a result they were seduced and deceived. Their clerics led them astray. It would cost them their souls. To best understand the nature of this particular deception and how it coincides with the history of Medieval Catholicism we must journey back in time and see if we can ascertain the nature of the deceptive religion Jezebel taught. The book of Kings tells us that she was the wife of Ahab and that’s not good because he was bad. From what we can tell from Scripture, Jezebel was the prototype for the Whore of Babylon depicted later in Revelation. She promoted the Babylonian sungod Bel and the Queen of Heaven - the Mother Earth goddess Asherah. She was a cleric in the counterfeit religion of Mystery Babylon - one of their prophets. She even advanced the more modern notion that the moral law of the Torah was no longer applicable. Jezebel’s Hebrew name tells us a great deal about this whore. ‘Yzebel means "to live with and exalt Bel." The "‘yz" portion of the compound word can mean: "woe or alas,’ or "a howling beast or jackal." This helps us flesh out her character and better understand the consequence of tolerating her wiles in our midst. The "bl" portion of her name forms the consonant basis of Lord/Bel, the title of the Babylonian sungod she served. But there is more. Zabal means "to live with me and to dwell in my residence. To zabal is "to loftily honor and to highly exalt." Even if we didn’t have the means to search Jezebel’s history, her name is sufficient to know that she was evil. Yet the Thyatira Church, representing Roman Catholicism in the Dark Ages, like the Jews before them, divorced Yahuweh and had married Ba’al’s whore. Having kicked God out, they allowed Satan to move in. Since scripture is a cohesive whole, very little is left to chance interpretations. Thyatira’s Jezebel is a whore with a history. She was a central player in a scheme that played out much like the Roman Catholic Church, albeit in Israel a thousand years earlier. Starting with I Kings 16:25, we read about a sovereign named Omri, his son Ahab, and his son’s wife, Jezebel. Their story is worth considering because it has been reenacted on a more modern stage. In other words, to understand the full implication of Revelation we will have to turn back the clock one thousand years. "And Omri did (‘asah - fashioned and created, prepared and produced, ordained, instituted, and accomplished) evil (ra’ - that which is disagreeable, displeasing, and malignant) in the sight of Yahuweh and was more wicked (ra’a’ - evil, displeasing, and injurious; and was worse at breaking apart and tearing asunder) than all who were before him, for he walked in all the ways of Jeroboam (Yarob’am - the one who quarrels and complains, striving and contending against the people).... And his sins (chatta’ah - errant ways) were associated with (‘asher - and linked to) Yisra’el, causing her to go the wrong way (chata’ - incur guilt and forfeit redemption, receiving condemnation), provoking and angering (ka’ac - vexing, agitating, troubling, irritating, and distressing) Yahuweh, the ‘Elohiym of Yisra’el by their vanity (hebel - emptiness and hollow breath, gradual diminishment to nothingness, worthlessness, conceitedness, foolishness, and futility)." (I Kings 16:25-26) ‘Omri, like Constantine was a general before he became king. His name explains the nature of his plot. ‘Omri (עָמְרִי) is based upon ‘amar (עָמַר) and it means "to act like a Catholic." I’ll grant you that this is a paraphrase, but the actual terminology is no less indicting. The primary definition defines religion: ‘amar is "to gather together and bind." Then it describes the Catholic behavior circa the Thyatira era: "to manipulate and deal tyrannically with." The conclusion is synonymous with diakonia, the Greek term Yahshua just used to describe these Catholics because ‘amar means "to treat people as if they were slaves." In that Jeroboam was first king of the Northern Kingdom, his "ways" became the subject of Hosea’s rebuke and the reason for Yahuweh’s divorce. The Northern kingdom was unfaithful, separating themselves from Yahuweh so that they could invite Ba’al, and his Babylonian religion, into their temples and homes. Moreover, everything you have read in the chapters of Yada Yahweh dedicated to Hosea’s prophecies (Azab - Abandonment, Yashar - Stand Upright, Shaw’ - Desolation, Thanatos - Separation, and Ruach - Spirit) is now relevant to this discussion on Assembly of Thyatira - the dark age of Catholicism. It is one of many reasons Yahuweh had us spend so much time there. He has prepared us to understand Revelation. The sad part of the passage we just read is that it reverberates to this very day. The errant ways of cleric and king affect the people themselves. When a nation’s political and religious currents flow in a direction which is opposed to Yahuweh and His Word, they erode the foundation upon which people come to know God. In that way the whole nation or congregation incurs the guilt of their leaders, forfeiting redemption, and receiving condemnation in its place. The reason Yahuweh hates hierarchical religious and political institutions is because they inflict their venom on the populous, causing everyone to die. These things irritate Yahweh, provoking, agitating and angering Him. God views man’s schemes, as well as those who echo them, as vain: "empty and hollow, worthlessness, conceited, foolish, and futile." They lead to having ones soul diminished to nothingness. And this is why Yahshua delineated His disgust for man’s errant ways in His Revelation letters. He isn’t so much bothered that popes will go to hell; it’s that their errors have caused millions to follow them there.
269 posted on 07/10/2007 1:37:34 PM PDT by pacelvi
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