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To: Raycpa
All ancient sources, both Christian and secular, place the banishment of Christians to Patmos during the reign of Domitian (AD81-96). Not a single early source (within 500 years of John) places John’s banishment under the reign of Nero, as preterists claim. All modern attempts to date Revelation during Nero’s reign rely exclusively on alleged internal evidence, and ignore or seek to undermine the external evidence and testimony of Christians who lived about that time, some of whom had connections to John.

Bingo ---

The earliest most credible witness for the 96 AD date is Irenaeus whose source, among others, would have been Polycarp, bishop of the church at Smyrna that received one of the seven letters that John wrote in 96 AD.

The Preterists are so far out on a limb on this one that they fall into the category of Agnostics, historical and biblical.

35 posted on 05/21/2007 5:20:57 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
The Preterists are so far out on a limb on this one that they fall into the category of Agnostics, historical and biblical.

Amen.

None of the events in Matthew 24 have happened yet.

The Roman destruction of Jerusalam is foretold in Lk 21:20-24.

41 posted on 05/21/2007 5:36:47 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! -Abe Lincoln)
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To: Uncle Chip; Raycpa

“The earliest most credible witness for the 96 AD date is Irenaeus whose source, among others, would have been Polycarp, bishop of the church at Smyrna that received one of the seven letters that John wrote in 96 AD.” ~ Uncle Chip

See below:

No Deposit, No Return?
Essays on Eschatology
James Patrick Holding
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschatology.html

Eons ago I recall getting from a “turn or burn” relative one of those neat brochures that outlined an interpretation of the book of Revelation with pictures of people being “raptured” and trucks and cars and planes crashing as souls flew out of the driver’s/pilot’s places. I have of course read my Hal Lindsey, but since taking a more scholarly bent to my studies, haven’t thought much about it. I have said to others, if the parousia comes in my lifetime, it shall find me either asleep or in a library somewhere. The subject was of that little concern to me.

But it has become clear that certain questions dealing with eschatology, in particular the questions, “Did Jesus predict a soon return? Did the Apostles expect a soon return?”, have become grist for the skeptical and critical mill. Of course we know well that skeptics of the caliber of say, Farrell Till, are about as likely to understand what they are reading as they are to understand quantum physics. But I have corresponded with at least one person who has said that they were “losing their faith” over this very question, and I am sure others exist as well.

The Big Picture — what preterism is all about, basically
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/pretsum.html

Issue #1: OT Background Data:

“The Day of the Lord”: An OT Judgmental Precursor
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/dayofl.html

The Book of Daniel and the Son of Man Precursor
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/danman.html

The Evidence of Other OT Prophets
Zechariah 14 and the Coming of Christ [Off Site]
http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/demar-gary_pp_01.html

Issue #2: Does the NT teach a “soon” return of Jesus?:

Preterism and Ancient Present-Orientation — a backdoor defense of preterism based on a social orientation of the ancients
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/timepret.html

The Evidence of the Gospels — The Olivet Discourse http://www.tektonics.org/esch/olivet01.html and Miscellaneous Synoptic Passages — see also here [Off Site]

The Evidence of the Pauline literature
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/paulend.html

The Evidence of the Catholic epistles and Hebrews
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/hcesh.html

The Evidence of Revelation
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/revdate.html

The Kingdom of God in Preterist Eschatology
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/kingpret.html

On the location of Christ’s reign [Warren]
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/ddwplace.html

Raising Cain and Abel — against views on resurrection, by [Warren]
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/raisecain.html

Responses to Preterism:

From the In Depth Bible Studies site
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschback01.html

A debate between ...Warren and a dispensationalist
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/tolpret.html

From a very, er, peculiar website
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/dovtail.html

From (HA HA, HEE HEE HEE) Skeptic X (please control yourself)
http://www.tektonics.org/tsr/tillpfft.html

From Evangelical scholar Thomas Ice (ah — now that’s better!)
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/pretice.html

From Ice and Tim LaHaye in The End Times Controversy (wish this were better, but it isn’t). http://www.tektonics.org/esch/pretice2.html Analysis by Gary DeMar as well, here.

Responses to “Full Preterism”(Hyper Preterism):

On the error of Hymenaenism”
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/hythere.html

Stephen Smith on “Spiritual Israel”
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/smithst01.html

Dale Allison on the Use of Metaphor
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschall.html

Eschatology.org on resurrection
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/rezwreck.html

“Dualistic Eschatology” by Tracy VanWyngaarden
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/wyngaar01.html

“Grave” Error: Hyper-preterism and the Response of the Church by ... Warren
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/grave.html


47 posted on 05/21/2007 6:11:52 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Leftism is a coalition of the over and undereducated/immature and the stupid" ~Gagdad)
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