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To: DreamsofPolycarp
Please forgive

I try to be precise in my words but I am not always clear or precise as I want to be. I make mistakes, also. I also hope that others will allow me to correct these mistakes or allow me to rephrase what I say (my point) in a better way. I hope for the same from you? .

Anyway...hmmm...I suppose I, myself, cannot divorce my (current) understanding of scripture from the idea of a true (spiritual) Church versus (a secular promised land) Israel.

Question:

Why does most of the world hate Israel (as a secular nation)?

I am curious about your ideas on this.

222 posted on 05/22/2007 4:14:42 PM PDT by invoman
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To: invoman
Why does most of the world hate Israel (as a secular nation)?

I think this is a false presumption. Personally, I believe that most of the evil world hates Israel, secular or otherwise.

Wiley

223 posted on 05/22/2007 4:49:09 PM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: invoman
Anyway...hmmm...I suppose I, myself, cannot divorce my (current) understanding of scripture from the idea of a true (spiritual) Church versus (a secular promised land) Israel.

Rather than tell you why that is (I have my suspicions), I will rather ask you why do you think that is so? (be prepared for a follow up question)
As for your (very good) question: Why does most of the world hate Israel (as a secular nation)?

My answer is simple. 1.3 billion moslems who view Jerusalem as THEIR holy city. I view Israel as an ally to the US, but I am not a Christian Zionist. I think you are amazingly honest to list Israel as a secular nation. I thank you for this. Many persons run immediately from a bunch of secular (atheistic, if truth be known) Jews occupying a strip of land in Palestine to the OT promises and breathlessly announce the OT covenant blessings of God on such a state. No such blessings are promised. In fact, if anything, in its current state, Israel is under the curse of the covenant keeping God, as they are at present, still rejectors of the Messiah. I want to tread lightly here, as I believe in fact the national covenant stipulations were dissolved with Christ, plus I don't want to sound like some European Nazi sympathizer. It is just hyperbole illustrating the unbiblical nature of those who insist on God's covenant blessings on modern Israel.

Since I can't sleep (smile), I will answer the same question re: hatred of Jews BEFORE they were a nation state. One of the largest mistakes in western culture imo was the Edict of Constantine, and the consequent attempts by Europe to incorporate some OT laws which were never intended to apply to the transcultural transnational people of God. Unrepentant Jews were heathen and "outsiders" and I don't have a problem with that, but they were refused entry into many job positions and careers simply because they were Jews (unrepentant unbelievers). Also, Europe adopted the fiscally untenable position of no interest, which functionally reduced it to a barter economy. As mercantilism caught on, they recognized the need for a banking industry, but what to do if it is "godless" to lend money and make money by doing so? Simple answer: get the heathen to do it. They are damned anyway and don't care about the church laws. So the Jews were permitted and encouraged to go into the ONE profession which even an idiot can succeed at when there is no competition. You are essentially watching a river of money run past you and can scoop off a little (just a little!) from each transaction. This did WONDERS for the financial postion of Jews (who had been dirt poor earlier), but also made them resented, as any wealthy class is resented. If you had some dishonest folks here and there, it simply reinforced the hatred and resentment. Let there come a fiscal collapse like the Weimar debacle and you have the ground laid ready to do what we in the USA have now learned to do (even without a collapse!), hate the wealthy. In Europe they had the advantage of a particular ethnic group to do so.

229 posted on 05/23/2007 12:12:34 AM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
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