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To: nanetteclaret; kerryusama04
Do you believe that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity?

No!

If so, He is God. If Mary is His mother, she is the mother of God (the second person of the Trinity). It is really quite simple.

What's really simple is what the Bible says he was. [John 1:1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word ,was God. It is very clear that Our Lord preexisted in a divine state....the word of God....the spokesman, as it were.

He became the begotten, human Son of God. [John 3:16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. He became flesh and blood. [John 1:14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Do you know what the word begotten means? It means to sire...to procreate...to impregnate. In other words, Jesus as a begotten son of God had not yet been born of God. When he resurrected from the dead.....to life everlasting, he was then born of God. Mary was never begotten of God. Her father was Heli [Luke 3:23]. She was born human and died human and still rests in her tomb. At the resurrection.....she then also will be born of God. Mary is no more a member of a pagan trinity than Huckleberry Hound. Your position is totally unbiblical.....mine is not.

Now, if you DON'T believe that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, then you believe in Nestorianism, a heresy that claims that Jesus was just a human man and not God.

Well....as you can see by my above statements, I don't believe in Nestorianism either. My only belief is in the Word of God. It's a pity you folks rely so much on your fallible Magesterium as they never get it right.

2,175 posted on 03/26/2007 4:32:11 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
Mary is no more a member of a pagan trinity than Huckleberry Hound.

Why, I do declare!

2,176 posted on 03/26/2007 4:50:14 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: Diego1618

Ah, I think I am beginning to understand you better.

You believe that Jesus Christ was human during His lifetime, and only human.

His miracles were done - how? Was he simply a channel through which God worked, like a magician's wand?

Are you then further saying that Jesus is in a state right now that all who are saved will be in?


2,178 posted on 03/27/2007 4:19:05 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (When you believe in nothing, then everything is acceptable.)
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To: Diego1618

Since you don't believe in the Holy Trinity, you are not a Christian, by definition. In 381 A.D., the Council of Constantinople approved the Nicene Creed, an expanded version of the Apostles' Creed, which had been in existence for many years. It is as follows:

I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Life,
who proceedeth from the Father and the Son;
who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

It's useless to discuss this with you, since we don't have anything close to the same frame of reference. You have made up your own beliefs, from your own interpretation of Scripture, and they aren't anywhere close to being what Christians have believed from the Apostolic Age. Your whole discussion is all about you and your interpretation of Scripture. You have a great responsibility on your shoulders, because if you are wrong (and you are), you will have led many, many people into darkness. I don't suppose you have ever thought about that, have you? Your lack of humility and insistence on being right has blinded you to the TRUTH. You said, "It's a pity you folks rely so much on your fallible Magesterium as they never get it right." You have made YOURSELF your own Magesterium and are doing exactly what you accuse us of doing! You have no authority but yourself, while we have the authority of the Church, founded by Jesus upon the rock of Peter. Under the influence of the Holy Spirit, greater and holier minds and hearts than yours have led our Church for these past 2,000 years. I will trust the Church's interpretation of Holy Scripture and will pray for you that your eyes will be opened and that you will receive the true Light of Christ, and leave behind your own made-up version. I will also pray for all those souls whom you are leading astray into darkness.

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Peter 2:1


2,184 posted on 03/27/2007 6:55:58 AM PDT by nanetteclaret ("Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there's always laughter and good red wine." Hilaire Belloc)
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